2024 US Election thread

[lizkat]

One of the funniest takes I've heard this week, is that if they flipped the ticket to Walz/Harris, they would have won. Reasoning: Robinson in NC is essentially a black trump (without the billions), who says and does similar stuff (and if you think about it he totally does...), yet they split the ticket to vote against him but still vote for trump. 😀

To me the 2024 election was another example of "too anomalous to conclude much of anything from," therefore subject to cherry-picking the same way as for " what is the meaning of life."

Mostly the "cost of muh groceries" as a swing factor points to concentrated GOP messaging.

With a straight face the same newspapers that wrote about economic travails before the election now write about the amazing job growth potential from the Biden economic legislation in states like AZ where new chip factories are in fact being located but the vote went for Trump because of the largely empty promise of mass deportation of undocumented immigrants.

Almost half of our agricultural harvest is done by immigrants, Only a fraction of those are by way of legislated visa programs. The industry is gearing up for a massive lobbying effect and so the Trump admin will do some spectacular raids and then go back to business as usual. God forbid they should take the opportunity to reintroduce bipartisan immigration reform legislation.​

​

The problem (and for Trump 2.0, the "solution" to that campaign promise about mass deportations is that it's easy to find undocumented labor, look in the meat packing sector... still lagging on e-Verify compliance and so hiring undocumented people who are working, getting taxed without benefits, etc. But they're easier (and safer) for ICE to round up than siccing the FBI on locating cartel-related drug kingpins or just hapless mules.​

​

Meanwhile as with all past hammer-falls on "immigrants," plenty of American citizens and immigrants with green cards will be rounded up, detained without legal recourse, possibly deported. "Brown and down" is what it amounts to. It won't be the first time someone steps down to the corner for a pack of cigarettes and finds himself sitting in an Alabama jail without ability to contact someone at home to fetch proof of citizenship.​

There are plenty people who know damn well that the Biden legislation is already funding their state's infrastructure projects and yet voted for Trump because "tax cuts" and "deregulation" sounded better than "loans for small business development". Put that down to "I've got mine, Jack". I call it the vote for "Greed Still Works."

 

[SouprMatt]

I am still trying to wrap my head around that the crowd who so loudly screams "all politicians lie", thought this was guy was their go to.

When their shit starts to burn down as well, what's the go to excuse then?

"But yeah, all politicians lie".

"Just not to me I thought."

Trump said he didn’t know what Project 2025 was! I guess now somebody must’ve told him, and … surprise … he loves it!

The other thing that will “shock” them is the upcoming national abortion ban. Because he never really said he wouldn’t do it. Instead he deflected with lies about babies being “aborted” after they were already born. Those lies were aimed squarely at the craziest pro-lifers, who WANT a national abortion ban.

 

[SouprMatt]

The MAGA faithful should be very happy about Trump winning a second term. But they seem just as angry as usual. This thread explores why…

 

[lizkat]

The MAGA faithful should be very happy about Trump winning a second term. But they seem just as angry as usual. This thread explores why…

The problem is that subscribing to outrage and grievance risks addiction to it, with all the usual signposts of addiction.

It takes more --and more frequent-- hits to stay "high" or "relieved" or "distracted".​

​

It gets harder to hide the addiction and its effects from friends, acquaintances, colleagues.​

​

It starts costing more money than one may have figured (a $60 Trump Bible, anyone?).​

​

Withdrawal is a b^tch,,, and you may become one in the process, furthering the danger of losing friends, family, maybe even a job.​

But until that day when the costs somehow register on a personal level, "what's not to like?" Party on...

 

[SouprMatt]

The problem is that subscribing to outrage and grievance risks addiction to it, with all the usual signposts of addiction.

It takes more --and more frequent-- hits to stay "high" or "relieved" or "distracted".​

​

It gets harder to hide the addiction and its effects from friends, acquaintances, colleagues.​

​

It starts costing more money than one may have figured (a $60 Trump Bible, anyone?).​

​

Withdrawal is a b^tch,,, and you may become one in the process, furthering the danger of losing friends, family, maybe even a job.​

But until that day when the costs somehow register on a personal level, "what's not to like?" Party on...

Interesting parallel… The Taliban won in Afghanistan. But running a government is not as exciting as perpetuating an insurgency!

Taliban Members Fed Up With Office Work, Ready to Quiet Quit

A new report says some jihadists who transitioned to desk jobs after the Taliban’s takeover are tired of the 9-to-5.

time.com

The former fighters found themselves missing the freedom of the front-lines as they adjusted to the mundane nature of office work. Huzaifa, a 24 year-old former sniper, said, “The Taliban used to be free of restrictions, but now we sit in one place, behind a desk and a computer 24 hours a day, seven days a week. Life’s become so wearisome; you do the same things every day.”

“In our ministry, there’s little work for me to do,” said Abdul Nafi, 25. “Therefore, I spend most of my time on Twitter. We’re connected to speedy Wi-Fi and Internet. Many mujahedin, including me, are addicted to the Internet, especially Twitter.”

Also, when you’re in charge, surprise… people want you to actually run the country!!!

Government work has come with pressures and responsibilities the men did not prepare for– or particularly want. “In the time of jihad, life was very simple. All we had to deal with was making plans for ta’aruz [attacks] against the enemy and for retreating,” said Huzaifa. “People didn’t expect much from us, and we had little responsibility towards them, whereas now if someone is hungry, he deems us directly responsible for that.”

Abdul Salam, 26, says, “Whatever happens in Afghanistan, people blame us. Even a minor misdeed by us makes it to the media that the Taleban are doing this and that. It’s like the cameras of the entire world are watching us.”

Turning this back to the USA… In 4 years (or even the midterms) the message to hammer on should be this: Is America Great Again yet?

 

[P___X]

The MAGA faithful should be very happy about Trump winning a second term. But they seem just as angry as usual. This thread explores why…

Too early. Wait until they can tread on others. That’s what brings the joy to them.

To me the 2024 election was another example of "too anomalous to conclude much of anything from," therefore subject to cherry-picking the same way as for " what is the meaning of life."

Mostly the "cost of muh groceries" as a swing factor points to concentrated GOP messaging.

With a straight face the same newspapers that wrote about economic travails before the election now write about the amazing job growth potential from the Biden economic legislation in states like AZ where new chip factories are in fact being located but the vote went for Trump because of the largely empty promise of mass deportation of undocumented immigrants.

Almost half of our agricultural harvest is done by immigrants, Only a fraction of those are by way of legislated visa programs. The industry is gearing up for a massive lobbying effect and so the Trump admin will do some spectacular raids and then go back to business as usual. God forbid they should take the opportunity to reintroduce bipartisan immigration reform legislation.​

​

The problem (and for Trump 2.0, the "solution" to that campaign promise about mass deportations is that it's easy to find undocumented labor, look in the meat packing sector... still lagging on e-Verify compliance and so hiring undocumented people who are working, getting taxed without benefits, etc. But they're easier (and safer) for ICE to round up than siccing the FBI on locating cartel-related drug kingpins or just hapless mules.​

​

Meanwhile as with all past hammer-falls on "immigrants," plenty of American citizens and immigrants with green cards will be rounded up, detained without legal recourse, possibly deported. "Brown and down" is what it amounts to. It won't be the first time someone steps down to the corner for a pack of cigarettes and finds himself sitting in an Alabama jail without ability to contact someone at home to fetch proof of citizenship.​

There are plenty people who know damn well that the Biden legislation is already funding their state's infrastructure projects and yet voted for Trump because "tax cuts" and "deregulation" sounded better than "loans for small business development". Put that down to "I've got mine, Jack". I call it the vote for "Greed Still Works."

I generally agree, but the point was well-made, people were absolutely able to cross vote against the same brand of insanity

 

[Thomas Veil]

Too early. Wait until they can tread on others. That’s what brings the joy to them.

If that's what you want to call it. Last time they remained just as angry throughout Trump's whole term. That's just the way they are.

 

[P___X]

If that's what you want to call it. Last time they remained just as angry throughout Trump's whole term. That's just the way they are.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m not projecting any self awareness or insight onto trumpists. But cruelty is the point and cruelty by incompetence is waaaaay too abstract for these folks to elicit joy.

 

[SouprMatt]

If that's what you want to call it. Last time they remained just as angry throughout Trump's whole term. That's just the way they are.

All MAGA offers is hate and grievance. Even when in office last time, 45 didn’t do anything productive. He just tried to break laws and ignore the constitution… then got angry when he was unable to.

 

[TBL]

Okay, here's something you guys will actually like and won't eyeroll at:

Because I actually agree with this one. Tariffs are not going to help, and people are stupid.

 

[P___X]

Okay, here's something you guys will actually like and won't eyeroll at:

Because I actually agree with this one. Tariffs are not going to help, and people are stupid.

Fun, indeed😀

Can you provide the source?

 

[Jay Mysteri0]

Okay, here's something you guys will actually like and won't eyeroll at:

Because I actually agree with this one. Tariffs are not going to help, and people are stupid.

You know the one thing that has made me uncomfortable is the assumption that people are stupid. It's not that I don't agree. I just think when it comes to topics like that, people are doing what I advocated, and voted in their own best interests. The problem of course is that over the last 2 decades people have been conditioned to be more selfish. So selfish, that they will vote or go against their own best self interests, if a seeming bigger issue is presented to them.

White woman like abortion, and they like the guy who took it from them.

Immigrants like being here, but they also seem to like the guy who ran on rounding them up & kicking them all out.

PoC, I don't know WTF is going on there.

Muslim people advocating for Palestine, but... 🤷‍♂️

I hated the term "low information voter", but that is probably the most apt phrasing that did come from the election. The whole thing where people would explain how tariffs work, and people who have no idea would dismiss the idea out of hand. You could literally just tell someone ask Alexa/Google/Siri what a tariff is, and they still refused to get it. No matter how slowly you explained it, it was somehow too much to handle. Which is why of course I am laughing that Walmart has already preemptively come out said stuff will go up from tariffs. Why wouldn't they? It's not like those customers are going to understand. They are going to blame Walmart anyways, but for transparency reasons Walmart is covering their asses.

The conditioning of a large portion of the electorate to be as selfish as possible has been a winning strategy for repubs. Even better, thanks to the age of 45, if that selfishness is combined with a little pain for others.

Last go round, it was Mexico that was going to pay. Mexico didn't pay. Instead dumb ass Americans gave Steve Bannon & friends money for a wall, they had no intention of building either.

This time, China is going to pay. Once again Americans will be the one forking over money, and not another country.

Low information voters ( "stupid" ) are the grease that unfortunately keeps the 45 train rolling, while everyone else pays.

I do think it's more selfishness over stupidity that's driving so many, even if their decisions end up hurting themselves. Just tell them their decision will hurt that guy over there, and they will be fine with it. Then they will blame the guy they wanted hurt anyways, while they are in pain. 🙄

 

[Jay Mysteri0]

Sorry. I left out the best example. The obsession with ACA aka Obamacare. It's Obamacare when it's to be hated, but ACA when someone on the right wants to take some credit for it. Repubs obsess with getting rid of Obamacare which their base loves, until you tell that base that it's ACA then it can't be touched. Well, that base has put back into office the group most determined to make shit more expensive for them, if they are allowed to get it at all.

Low info indeed.

If only it had been called something like "Romney Care". 🤔

 

[P___X]

You know the one thing that has made me uncomfortable is the assumption that people are stupid. It's not that I don't agree. I just think when it comes to topics like that, people are doing what I advocated, and voted in their own best interests. The problem of course is that over the last 2 decades people have been conditioned to be more selfish. So selfish, that they will vote or go against their own best self interests, if a seeming bigger issue is presented to them.

White woman like abortion, and they like the guy who took it from them.

Immigrants like being here, but they also seem to like the guy who ran on rounding them up & kicking them all out.

PoC, I don't know WTF is going on there.

Muslim people advocating for Palestine, but... 🤷‍♂️

I hated the term "low information voter", but that is probably the most apt phrasing that did come from the election. The whole thing where people would explain how tariffs work, and people who have no idea would dismiss the idea out of hand. You could literally just tell someone ask Alexa/Google/Siri what a tariff is, and they still refused to get it. No matter how slowly you explained it, it was somehow too much to handle. Which is why of course I am laughing that Walmart has already preemptively come out said stuff will go up from tariffs. Why wouldn't they? It's not like those customers are going to understand. They are going to blame Walmart anyways, but for transparency reasons Walmart is covering their asses.

The conditioning of a large portion of the electorate to be as selfish as possible has been a winning strategy for repubs. Even better, thanks to the age of 45, if that selfishness is combined with a little pain for others.

Last go round, it was Mexico that was going to pay. Mexico didn't pay. Instead dumb ass Americans gave Steve Bannon & friends money for a wall, they had no intention of building either.

This time, China is going to pay. Once again Americans will be the one forking over money, and not another country.

Low information voters ( "stupid" ) are the grease that unfortunately keeps the 45 train rolling, while everyone else pays.

I do think it's more selfishness over stupidity that's driving so many, even if their decisions end up hurting themselves. Just tell them their decision will hurt that guy over there, and they will be fine with it. Then they will blame the guy they wanted hurt anyways, while they are in pain. 🙄

I think it's difficult to have in-depth interpretation of the screenshot without knowing the source, so who asked whom, sample size, date, and context. @TBL?

 

[TBL]

@P___X Here's where the screenshot was taken from:

CBS News poll finds Trump starts on positive note as most approve of transition handling

Democrats say they're concerned or scared Trump will threaten their rights, but fewer than half feel motivated to oppose him.

www.cbsnews.com

It is the full poll results at the bottom. Above the poll it states: "This CBS News/YouGov survey was conducted with a nationally representative sample of 2,232 U.S. adults interviewed between November 19-22, 2024. The sample was weighted to be representative of adults nationwide according to gender, age, race, and education, based on the U.S. Census American Community Survey and Current Population Survey, as well as 2024 presidential vote. The margin of error is ±2.3 points."

 

[P___X]

@P___X Here's where the screenshot was taken from:

CBS News poll finds Trump starts on positive note as most approve of transition handling

Democrats say they're concerned or scared Trump will threaten their rights, but fewer than half feel motivated to oppose him.

www.cbsnews.com

It is the full poll results at the bottom. Above the poll it states: "This CBS News/YouGov survey was conducted with a nationally representative sample of 2,232 U.S. adults interviewed between November 19-22, 2024. The sample was weighted to be representative of adults nationwide according to gender, age, race, and education, based on the U.S. Census American Community Survey and Current Population Survey, as well as 2024 presidential vote. The margin of error is ±2.3 points."

My fave is this:

By Jan 6th, the economy will be soaring 🤣 🤣 🤣

You know the one thing that has made me uncomfortable is the assumption that people are stupid. It's not that I don't agree. I just think when it comes to topics like that, people are doing what I advocated, and voted in their own best interests. The problem of course is that over the last 2 decades people have been conditioned to be more selfish. So selfish, that they will vote or go against their own best self interests, if a seeming bigger issue is presented to them....

So one of the main criticism of the DeSantoids was that issues with math scores were given complex abstract explanations. Considering RFK a good HHS choice is the single best test of having horribly bad judgement 😀

 

[SouprMatt]

Okay, here's something you guys will actually like and won't eyeroll at:

Because I actually agree with this one. Tariffs are not going to help, and people are stupid.

LOL thank you, us Americans really showed why we might be the dumbest country in the world this month. We want lower prices, but we are willing to pay more if it means “punishing” foreign countries with tariffs instead!

People also consistently whine that union workers make more than they do, and yet they fail to add 2+2 and think about unionizing themselves! Nah, just keep being broke and try to dissolve the union so other people can be just as broke as you. This is the exact mentality the entire MAGA movement is based on. It’s preferable to punish others than to improve one’s own life. 🤦‍♂️

PS - apologies that I ended up repeating a lot of what @Jay Mysteri0 said. He nailed it, and much more eloquently too…

 

[P___X]

LOL thank you, us Americans really showed why we might be the dumbest country in the world this month. We want lower prices, but we are willing to pay more if it means “punishing” foreign countries with tariffs instead!

People also consistently whine that union workers make more than they do, and yet they fail to add 2+2 and think about unionizing themselves! Nah, just keep being broke and try to dissolve the union so other people can be just as broke as you. This is the exact mentality the entire MAGA movement is based on. It’s preferable to punish others than to improve one’s own life. 🤦‍♂️

I think there's a secondary movement that was and isn't entirely political and emerged during COVID. Meme capitalists. One of the key things/appeals is that participants can do really really dumb stuff (remember r/wallstreetbets referring to themselves as apes?), as long as they are less dumb than the other half the'll end up with net profit. It's a game to convince others to do dumb stuff en masse and then milk these unprecedented scenarios.

 

[lizkat]

This was a good read at the time and it's still a good read, and still true.

https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2019/11/01/the-five-people-who-could-have-stopped-trump-229894/

Five Atlantic City gaming board commissioners in the mid-1970s justified calling Trump "financially stable" in the face of three bankrupt casinos and a bunch of greedy bankers probably locking their risk managers in a broom closet to bail the guy out yet again. They and the gaming commissioners did it ostensibly on grounds that winking at the truth would serve a greater good than yanking his casino licenses and putting people out of work.

However, in doing that, they basically shored up the ground on which successive groups of people would also roll over for Trump, and for similarly self-serving reasons. And Trump knew it, and they knew it, yet they faced potential humiliation with absolute cowardice: saying no and holding him accountable would have make them all look like the self-serving jerks they were and had been the whole time they dealt with him... and possibly open them up to unwanted scrutiny and maybe loss of their own jobs.

Behold the path to Trump's owning the GOP in all its now savaged principles and rapacious post-ideological focus on retaining power at all cost to enemies and supporters alike.

“He sniffed that weakness, that they were not going to really, you know, enforce anything,” fellow Trump biographer Gwenda Blair said. “They were not going to take away his license. They couldn’t. It sounds awfully simple-minded, but that’s it. He figures it out so that for people to go against him it’s going to make them look bad: It’s going to make them look bad that they ever approved his casinos, it’s going to make the bankers look bad that they ever gave him his loans, it’s going to make the Republican Party look bad that it ever got behind him.”

But pulsing, too, through this episode involving Trump’s regulators from the past are lessons for his regulators of the present. As the latter calculate the advantages and downsides of challenging the most powerful elected official on the planet, they would be wise to recall that Atlantic City’s decision to save Trump was part of a broader effort to save the city itself. And it didn’t work.

The GOP has long since turned into the party of Trump. His supporters are for him. He's for him too. This is the last hurrah. Behold the warring factions of oligarchs, theocrats, barn burners, and the straight-up vultures trying to get a grip on the levers of power before this con man of two centuries swears a false oath of high office again.

There is wonderment about when and from where may develop stronger whispers of "will no one rid me of this meddlesome priest?," sure. But no one has appeared yet to have the same deadly charisma that Donald Trump has had since he rolled over the gaming commissioners of Atlantic City. And the fate of Atlantic City since the advent of online gaming, some hurricanes and the spread of casinos to other states? It's a food desert, among other things. Picture a "community" of over 35,000 people served by exactly one supermarket three miles away.
,
And Trump? He's proud of what he took out of Atlantic City, yep.

In his [2016] campaign, pressed periodically about his record there, Trump congratulated himself while criticizing the place that saved him. “I had the good sense to leave Atlantic City,” he said in the first GOP debate. “I left Atlantic City before it totally cratered, and I made a lot of money in Atlantic City, and I’m very proud of it.” In Atlantic City, there were lots of losers. Not Trump, he said. “Atlantic City fueled a lot of growth for me,” he told the New York Times in 2016. “The money I took out of there was incredible.”

That's the draw for all who cluster around Trump now like pups to the teat. The promise of being able to take money out of the USA.

The threats to our public health, national defense, education, workforce development, natural resources, food supply and harvests, the decline of our standing amongst allies now loom and do not matter. The prize is to replace the feckless Trump and get the hell outta Dodge before the whole country becomes Atlantic City.

 

[SouprMatt]

MUH GROCERY BILL!



A local store is selling Turkey $.35 a pound…