2024 US Election thread

[lizkat]

MUH GROCERY BILL!

A local store is selling Turkey $.35 a pound…

Yeah get it now because the first immigration raids will be at poultry processing plants. Easy to find bc they go to a workplace every day.😡

 

[SouprMatt]

Yeah get it now because the first immigration raids will be at poultry processing plants. Easy to find bc they go to a workplace every day.😡

It will be fine, because Republicans nationwide will follow the lead of red-state governors like Sarah Huckabee Sanders, forcing allowing little kids to work those jobs instead.

 

[lizkat]

It will be fine, because Republicans nationwide will follow the lead of red-state governors like Sarah Huckabee Sanders, forcing allowing little kids to work those jobs instead.

Sleepwalking backwards into the early 20th century again, what could possibly go wrong?

The September 1906 edition of Cosmopolitan magazine recounts a story once told of an old Native American chieftain. The chieftain was given a tour of the modern city of New York. On this excursion, he saw the soaring heights of the grand skyscrapers and the majesty of the Brooklyn Bridge. He observed the comfortable masses gathered in amusement at the circus and the poor huddled in tenements.

Upon the completion of the chieftain’s journey, several Christian men asked him, “What is the most surprising thing you have seen?” The chieftain replied slowly with three words: “little children working.”

Although the widespread presence of laboring children may have surprised the chieftain at the turn of the 20th century, this sight was common in the United States at the time. From the Industrial Revolution through the 1930s was a period in which children worked in a wide variety of occupations. Now, nearly 110 years after the story of the chieftain was told, the overt presence of widespread child labor in New York or any other American city no longer exists. The move away from engaging children in economically productive labor occurred within the last 100 years.

Source (while it still exists): US Bureau of Labor Statistics, Monthly Labor Review, issue for November of 2017

 

[SouprMatt]

Sleepwalking backwards into the early 20th century again, what could possibly go wrong?





Source (while it still exists): US Bureau of Labor Statistics, Monthly Labor Review, issue for November of 2017

I never heard that story, thank you…

 

[lizkat]

Some more stories that apparently need to be told more often in the US House of Representatives, anyway here gettin' told loud and clear:

 

[Jay Mysteri0]

From the dept of 20 / 20 hindsight & the dept of 'who the f- didn't see this coming", ...let's see what it means to worry more about possible voters & not your base...

Harris Adviser on Liz Cheney Alliance: ‘This Political Environment Sucked, OK?’

Top campaign staffers went on Pod Save America to discuss why Harris lost, and to defend their failed strategy

www.yahoo.com

When asked about the decision to bring in prominent Republican figures like former Rep. Liz Cheney to act as surrogates for Harris — and hopefully draw in moderates or disaffected Republicans — the vice president’s campaign team argued that the blowback to Cheney’s involvement was overstated.

“We’d spent a lot of time with voters who we were concerned weren’t going to vote. And the fact that Liz Cheney was supporting Kamala Harris was not an issue raised by any of them,” Plouffe said. “We needed some percentage of Republicans, but I think what people forget is, it’s more the independents who act like Republicans, where issues of democracy, of how unhinged he is, Project 2025, mattered to them, even as some conservative Democrats.”

“It can sound like making excuses,” he continued. “This political environment sucked, OK? At the end of the day, we had to raise people’s concern and the threat level of a Trump second term. I think if you look at our internal data, and Quentin can speak to this, we did a lot of that. We just didn’t get it to the extent that we needed to to win.”

According to exit polls, the Harris campaign’s efforts to win over Republican voters and even moderates were not successful. This year, Harris only won 5 percent of Republican votes — a smaller percentage than Democrats won in either 2016 or 2020. Harris also won a smaller percentage of moderates and independents than Joe Biden did when he beat Trump last election cycle.

At the same time, Democratic turnout cratered: the percentage of the electorate who identified as Democrats this year was down substantially from recent elections.

Corporate dems have been so fixated on making Liz Cheney some kind of political martyr. Like she's going to join the team if they flatter her enough. All the while like I said back during the sucking up during 1/6 committee. Until her own life was threatened, she was ride or die with 45. It's not easy to forget that, or somehow imagine the base is going to go "Oh Liz's here, this is definitely the party for me now"!

If anything comes from the supposed "self reflection" of corporate dems, it's going to be seeing how mad they are that the base they've taken for granted for so long no longer carries their water. All I've heard is how who didn't turn out for them, and how they don't talk to others on what concerns them. So the strat they went with is talk to others & take for granted your base, and then wonder why there was diminished enthusiasm.

I keep hearing about how "real" republicans may need to split off from their new maga overlords. I'm wondering if a split isn't necessary for the dems as well in the future.

 

[SouprMatt]

From the dept of 20 / 20 hindsight & the dept of 'who the f- didn't see this coming", ...let's see what it means to worry more about possible voters & not your base...







Corporate dems have been so fixated on making Liz Cheney some kind of political martyr. Like she's going to join the team if they flatter her enough. All the while like I said back during the sucking up during 1/6 committee. Until her own life was threatened, she was ride or die with 45. It's not easy to forget that, or somehow imagine the base is going to go "Oh Liz's here, this is definitely the party for me now"!

If anything comes from the supposed "self reflection" of corporate dems, it's going to be seeing how mad they are that the base they've taken for granted for so long no longer carries their water. All I've heard is how who didn't turn out for them, and how they don't talk to others on what concerns them. So the strat they went with is talk to others & take for granted your base, and then wonder why there was diminished enthusiasm.

I keep hearing about how "real" republicans may need to split off from their new maga overlords. I'm wondering if a split isn't necessary for the dems as well in the future.

I also think there’s another thing in play here. The pipeline from politicians to media jobs. It’s not just happening with Fox News. We see many former Democratic politicians and aides on mainstream media outlets.

Why is that a factor? Because the narrative from almost every mainstream media outlet for the past year was the “undecided” voter - the key to the 2024 election! I thought perhaps they knew they were full of baloney, and were just doing the stories for the clickbait. After all, who doesn’t want to gawk at somebody who supposedly can’t decide between an 80-year-old failed Nazi businessman and a lifetime public servant?

So it seems to me that the Biden/Harris campaign believed in this obvious (to many of us) fallacy of winning by shifting the undecided voters. 45’s team figured out a long time ago that they have a ceiling. And the best way for them to win is to hype up their base and depress turnout by the other side. But on the Dems’ side, you have them scouring the country for the unicorn undecided voter who can be convinced to vote for Harris, while ignoring 10 other people who support Harris but just needed to be encouraged of the importance of voting. Trotting out Cheney and Kinzinger surely was NOT the strategy to make that happen.

However, I still say anybody who supposedly values freedom and stayed home earlier this month has only themselves to blame. Just hoping the Democrats take an unapologetic progressive stance next time (if there is one), because it’s WAY past time for them to try and energize people to vote FOR something instead of just AGAINST the fascists.

 

[Thomas Veil]

So it seems to me that the Biden/Harris campaign believed in this obvious (to many of us) fallacy of winning by shifting the undecided voters. 45’s team figured out a long time ago that they have a ceiling. And the best way for them to win is to hype up their base and depress turnout by the other side. But on the Dems’ side, you have them scouring the country for the unicorn undecided voter who can be convinced to vote for Harris, while ignoring 10 other people who support Harris but just needed to be encouraged of the importance of voting. Trotting out Cheney and Kinzinger surely was NOT the strategy to make that happen.

I don't know if anyone's tried this kind of strategy.

There's telling people that Trump is lying to them, which occurs "in the moment" and does not seem to have any effect on Republicans...vs. waiting until things go bad––as they will––and then telling Republicans that Trump has made a fool of them.

That's a very fine difference in wording. But to me, when you tell people that a politician has lied to them, they shrug and go, "What else is new?". OTOH when you tell them that someone has made a fool of them...well, people don't like being made to look like a fool.

And I emphasize, this would have to be done continuously throughout Trump's term, not just run in ads leading up to election day.

You might only swing a minimal number of right wing voters back to the center, but you may get more of them to stay home.

Just a thought. 🤷‍♂️

 

[lizkat]

I don't know if anyone's tried this kind of strategy.

There's telling people that Trump is lying to them, which occurs "in the moment" and does not seem to have any effect on Republicans...vs. waiting until things go bad––as they will––and then telling Republicans that Trump has made a fool of them.

That's a very fine difference in wording. But to me, when you tell people that a politician has lied to them, they shrug and go, "What else is new?". OTOH when you tell them that someone has made a fool of them...well, people don't like being made to look like a fool.

And I emphasize, this would have to be done continuously throughout Trump's term, not just run in ads leading up to election day.

You might only swing a minimal number of right wing voters back to the center, but you may get more of them to stay home.

Just a thought. 🤷‍♂️

I don't know what the Dems should do about the fact that "messaging" is apparently not their problem, more like getting real about establishing more on-the-ground presence -- listen, propose, help implement-- in red states, past popping in during prez elections. I don't think the political lean per se really matters. If a community needs new sewer lines or a way to rescue dilapidated housing, etc., those projects take local networking to rally public interest and support, then ransacking contact lists to round up money and it doesn't have to be ideological. In practice, locally, it often isn't. But it means new contacts are made and new potential support is there when something usually seen as more partisan pops up later.

But for now with the Dems, it does seem like the main thing is to be grateful the Rs' margin in the House remains so thin, and so put some serious effort into selecting the next batch of red House seats to flip in the midterms. By then there should be some real campaign-ad material there, given the "quality" of Trump 2.0 picks and the knock-on effects of any Project 25 agenda items that are actually rolled out for implementation. The Rs have a poor enough record at actual governance, so taking away their trifecta at the two-year mark might be a real democracy-saver AND something can be built on for the 2028 presidential elections. By then we'll know more about how Vance looks to the MAGA fans, too, most likely.

 

[SouprMatt]

I don't know if anyone's tried this kind of strategy.

There's telling people that Trump is lying to them, which occurs "in the moment" and does not seem to have any effect on Republicans...vs. waiting until things go bad––as they will––and then telling Republicans that Trump has made a fool of them.

That's a very fine difference in wording. But to me, when you tell people that a politician has lied to them, they shrug and go, "What else is new?". OTOH when you tell them that someone has made a fool of them...well, people don't like being made to look like a fool.

And I emphasize, this would have to be done continuously throughout Trump's term, not just run in ads leading up to election day.

You might only swing a minimal number of right wing voters back to the center, but you may get more of them to stay home.

Just a thought. 🤷‍♂️

I don’t think it’s worth appealing to MAGA voters at all. They aren’t a majority of the population, and they don’t care what people outside their tribe think. Just reach out to the decent human beings and remind them: If you don’t vote, these red-hat wearing a$$holes will be running the country. A lot of people forgot that this year.

 

[Jay Mysteri0]

Bonus:

 

[SouprMatt]

“I HAD to vote for the Nazi because I can’t afford eggs!”

Nearly 80 Million Americans Expected to Travel over Thanksgiving

WASHINGTON, DC (November 18, 2024) - AAA projects 79.9 million travelers will head 50 miles or more from home over the Thanksgiving holiday travel

newsroom.aaa.com

Chee Hoo Mania At The Box Office: ‘Moana 2’ Dancing To Record 5-Day $215M+ Opening Besting ‘Super Mario Bros’; ‘Wicked’ Wows $118M+ & ‘Gladiator II’ $45M

'Moana 2' 5-day opening is bound for a Thanksgiving record at $215M-$220M. 'Wicked' will see a running total of $243M by Sunday, a record for Broadway musical movie.

deadline.com

Please, let one more person tell me this election was about “the economy.”

 

[Thomas Veil]

Ya know, I kind of wondered myself why Joe Biden was being so confounded nice in meeting with Trump and facilitating the transition. But a part of me appreciated Biden sticking to convention and, you know, doing the right thing.

And then, this.

Trump camp mocks Biden behind closed doors for willingness to help transition: insiders

Donald Trump and his allies are mocking President Joe Biden behind closed doors after he greeted his successor in the White House with decorum, according to a report.Trump camp insiders told Rolling Stone they’ve been ridiculing Biden after he welcomed the president-elect to talk about the...

www.rawstory.com

…Trump himself has joined in the sneering, the report said.

“Some of us have been laughing about it,” an official in Trump’s future administration told the website.

“[Democrats] spend all this time calling Donald Trump a Nazi and Hitler, and now it’s just: ‘Smile for the camera!’”

…(Rolling Stone)…referred to the mockery as “gleefully rejoicing and sneering at, as one close Trump ally puts it, the Democrats’ almost performative “capitulation” to Trump.”

And it said four sources close to the president-elect claimed the sentiment was “widely shared in Trumpland.”

And you know what, Trumpland? I don’t have Biden’s sense of decorum.

So go fuck yourselves.

 

[P___X]

Ya know, I kind of wondered myself why Joe Biden was being so confounded nice in meeting with Trump and facilitating the transition. But a part of me appreciated Biden sticking to convention and, you know, doing the right thing.

And then, this.

And you know what, Trumpland? I don’t have Biden’s sense of decorum.


So go fuck yourselves.

I think the primary source of their glee is that they really are who they are claimed to be.

 

[TBL]

Liberal Pundits Were Dead Wrong on Americans’ Economic Pain

It turns out misinformation did help decide the election: the misinformation coming from liberal pundits. They told Democratic Party leaders that voters who were unhappy with the economy were simply wrong.

jacobin.com

 

[lizkat]

Ya know, I kind of wondered myself why Joe Biden was being so confounded nice in meeting with Trump and facilitating the transition. But a part of me appreciated Biden sticking to convention and, you know, doing the right thing.

And then, this.

Trump camp mocks Biden behind closed doors for willingness to help transition: insiders

Donald Trump and his allies are mocking President Joe Biden behind closed doors after he greeted his successor in the White House with decorum, according to a report.Trump camp insiders told Rolling Stone they’ve been ridiculing Biden after he welcomed the president-elect to talk about the...

www.rawstory.com

And you know what, Trumpland? I don’t have Biden’s sense of decorum.

So go fuck yourselves.

Same stuff happened with transition help offered by Obama admin to incoming Trump 1.0 crowd.

In his book "The Fifth Risk," Michael Lewis described some of the efforts made by the outgoing admin not only to have thorough briefing books and in-person assistance but "all the little things" -- nice coffee/cookies spreads, voluntary relinquishment of parking spaces near the building for the appointed time of briefings, etc., etc. That book is a great read.

Not only was the response [crickets] to some of the staff-to-staff briefing invitations, but in some cases even Trump 1.0 cabinet heads declined to be briefed. Wilbur Ross (then incoming head of Commerce) didn't even know what agencies were under his umbrella and yet declined a briefing. When in desperation the Obama crowd finally got a Bush era dude to come in and summarize the scope of the job for Ross, pointing out that "Commerce" is a bit of misnomer for all the data collection and science that goes on in the department (NOAA, for instance), Ross shrugged and allowed "Yeah I don't think I want to be focusing on that."

And indeed few of the picks in Trump 1.0 were interested in data, its collection or related science, past squelching GOP-incompatible info from any and all websites of the US government that offered information to the public.

There's no reason to think the same thing won't go on as Trump 2.0 ramps up. Only difference now is they know where to look and what to trash.

 

[P___X]

Same stuff happened with transition help offered by Obama admin to incoming Trump 1.0 crowd.

In his book "The Fifth Risk," Michael Lewis described some of the efforts made by the outgoing admin not only to have thorough briefing books and in-person assistance but "all the little things" -- nice coffee/cookies spreads, voluntary relinquishment of parking spaces near the building for the appointed time of briefings, etc., etc. That book is a great read.

Not only was the response [crickets] to some of the staff-to-staff briefing invitations, but in some cases even Trump 1.0 cabinet heads declined to be briefed. Wilbur Ross (then incoming head of Commerce) didn't even know what agencies were under his umbrella and yet declined a briefing. When in desperation the Obama crowd finally got a Bush era dude to come in and summarize the scope of the job for Ross, pointing out that "Commerce" is a bit of misnomer for all the data collection and science that goes on in the department (NOAA, for instance), Ross shrugged and allowed "Yeah I don't think I want to be focusing on that."

And indeed few of the picks in Trump 1.0 were interested in data, its collection or related science, past squelching GOP-incompatible info from any and all websites of the US government that offered information to the public.

There's no reason to think the same thing won't go on as Trump 2.0 ramps up. Only difference now is they know where to look and what to trash.

Does anybody think COVID transpired the way it did during Trump's turn and the transition by chance?😀

The only question is what our next crisis will be that they'll refuse to manage because of being way too busy maintaining their conflicts of interest.

But y'know, Earl thinks chaos will benefit him by making life even more miserable for those libruls.

 

[P___X]

Liberal Pundits Were Dead Wrong on Americans’ Economic Pain

It turns out misinformation did help decide the election: the misinformation coming from liberal pundits. They told Democratic Party leaders that voters who were unhappy with the economy were simply wrong.

jacobin.com

'tis your guy?! (check the date on this book)

Yesterday's Man: The Case Against Joe Biden

A deep dive into Joe Biden’s history and the origins of…

www.goodreads.com

Also, this halfwits garbage can be eliminated by a single stat:
- FoxNews daily viewers: 2.6M anytime
- CNN PLUS MSNBC: 2M on election week!!!!

Some people confuse criticism with critical thinking.


Also, again, why are your boycott-Biden-for-palestine friends so f'n quiet now?

 

[TBL]

Yes, that's the guy. You know that's a leftist critique of Biden, correct? I realize that liberals often find the left more repugnant than the right, and that's disappointing because we should be on the same side.

In either case, I stand by what's in that article and no one's quiet about Palestine and ol' Genocide Joe. If anything, I've been hearing more about it lately.

 

[P___X]

Yes, that's the guy. You know that's a leftist critique of Biden, correct? I realize that liberals often find the left more repugnant than the right, and that's disappointing because we should be on the same side.

I'm a little tired of self-important schmucks telling me why Harris lost. Pointing to Morning Fucking Joe?! His influence is dwarfed by the influence of Fox. So we now really think that the MSNBC listeners sat out this election, or that pretendependents listen to Morning Joe?! You can analyze the shit out of all of this but a rational question is, again, what did trump offer/what his track record on any of the issues people care about?!😀 So democrats are expected to be flawlessly aligned with the rainbow coalition (euro term) of their constituency on every single issue, whereas republicans get a pass for literally everything along those same criticisms as long as they can promise panem et circenses et dominus albus.

I'm sure the solution is some good old fashioned division on the left...

In either case, I stand by what's in that article and no one's quiet about Palestine and ol' Genocide Joe. If anything, I've been hearing more about it lately.

Your "friends" having fun running their movement under Drumpf Zwei will be a great attestation to their judgement.