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EV- Electric Vehicle Talk

Huntn

Misty Mountains Envoy
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Chupacabra wrestling in Tejas
Texas like other states are seeking way to recover lost tax revenue from lost gasoline sales, passing a law charging a $200 annual usage tax for EV ownership. This is reported as on the high end of the spectrum compared to other states. Based on a principle I’d say this is fair, however, if the fee is for road maintenence I’d prefer that those who put the most wear and tear on the roads, pay the most. That would be interstate trucking. Now I admit, I am not familiar with all the fees associated with interstate trucking. It’s just an idea I’m exploring based on principle.

 
Texas like other states are seeking way to recover lost tax revenue from lost gasoline sales, passing a law charging a $200 annual usage tax for EV ownership. This is reported as on the high end of the spectrum compared to other states. Based on a principle I’d say this is fair, however, if the fee is for road maintenence I’d prefer that those who put the most wear and tear on the roads, pay the most. That would be interstate trucking. Now I admit, I am not familiar with all the fees associated with interstate trucking. It’s just an idea I’m exploring based on principle.

I wonder whether oil subsidies cost more than is brought in via the gas tax. I’m guessing the answer is yes, so if we get rid of all oil subsidies and put that money towards roads and bridges instead? Maybe we don’t need a road usage fee.
 
EVs are heavier, but also driven much fewer miles. So that EV tax is a backwards idea. Also, I thought Texas hated Taxes.

BTW, here's my advice: if you want an EV, lease one that is discounted, or wait 1-2 more years and you'll have 2x new EVs or 2x cheaper used ones.
 
Really excellent article here on the biggest problem with EVs: charging stations.

Jennifer Granholm—you know, the Secretary of Energy—took an extended trip and found out for herself as she headed for a Georgia suburb.

Her advance team realized there weren't going to be enough plugs to go around. One of the station's four chargers was broken, and others were occupied. So an Energy Department staffer tried parking a nonelectric vehicle by one of those working chargers to reserve a spot for the approaching secretary of energy.
That did not go down well: a regular gas-powered car blocking the only free spot for a charger?

(This actually precipitated a citizen’s call to the police…who couldn’t do anything about it.)

,,,According to the auto-data giant J.D. Power, worries about public chargers are the No. 1 reason why would-be EV buyers are reluctant to make the switch, even outranking concerns about high prices.

And the story goes on to enumerate those worries:
  • Having to plan to find charging stations
  • The quantity (or lack thereof) of same
  • Slow charging speeds at some stations
  • Reliability of those stations
It’s highly illustrative, though. Props to Granholm for being open enough to share her adventures with the media. But if even she can’t find enough chargers….

 
Really excellent article here on the biggest problem with EVs: charging stations.

Jennifer Granholm—you know, the Secretary of Energy—took an extended trip and found out for herself as she headed for a Georgia suburb.




(This actually precipitated a citizen’s call to the police…who couldn’t do anything about it.)



And the story goes on to enumerate those worries:
  • Having to plan to find charging stations
  • The quantity (or lack thereof) of same
  • Slow charging speeds at some stations
  • Reliability of those stations
It’s highly illustrative, though. Props to Granholm for being open enough to share her adventures with the media. But if even she can’t find enough chargers….

Charging stations should be ubiquitous. Biden’s infrastructure law is an attempt to make that happen. This could have been done a decade ago, but fossil fuel companies own our elected officials.
 
Really excellent article here on the biggest problem with EVs: charging stations.

Jennifer Granholm—you know, the Secretary of Energy—took an extended trip and found out for herself as she headed for a Georgia suburb.




(This actually precipitated a citizen’s call to the police…who couldn’t do anything about it.)



And the story goes on to enumerate those worries:
  • Having to plan to find charging stations
  • The quantity (or lack thereof) of same
  • Slow charging speeds at some stations
  • Reliability of those stations
It’s highly illustrative, though. Props to Granholm for being open enough to share her adventures with the media. But if even she can’t find enough chargers….

They should have made that assessment before the EV incentives, LOL. (they did, there's plenty of gov analysis and recommendations for actions).

The math is simple:
An EV can do a 2.5-4.2 miles for each 1 KWh spent. My large electronic SUV averages on 3.1mi/KWh.
Level 1 chargers (regular wall plug) fill 5-12.5mi for each hour (2-3KW), also called as trickle charge.
Level 2 will charge 12.5-36mi for each hour of charging (5-9 KW)
Level 3 (DC Fast) can do anywhere from 35 to 200 miles in 30 min. But this is murky, because most cars' DC Fast charging curve is non-linear and there

There are 2 issues and 2 broad solutions.
Issue #1: How to best cover average daily charging needs. For most Americans, even a regular wall plug could do it, TBH. Considering that our cars are parking for more than 20 hours a day that would be doable. As @SouprMatt is saying, if governments provided a plug with lighting poles that already have the wiring even for level 2.

Issue #2: How to deal with road tripping, when you want to charge a lot and quick. This is where there are ton of major issues on both the Charging vendor and Carmaker perspective. For example, my car's nominal max charging speed is 175 KW. My record has been 182 KW, i.e. the car went from 1% to 50% (~140 mi range) in about 15 minutes. But above 50% it gets throttled down. So the charging curves are non-linear. But with Electrify America, it tends to be more like 80KW, so the 30 minute free charging session would take me from 20% to 70% charge.

One of the annoying things is 30 minutes is longer than the 3-5minute fill up stop, but also too short to do some shopping, unless one orders food up front, plugs the car in, picks up the food and eats it in the car. Right now I can squeeze out about 280mi from the car on a full charge driving 65MPH, and charge 40 minutes, to get another 200 miles. So you can do a 400 mi leg roadtrip with overnight charging easily...unless there is torrential rainfall, the most brutal range killer.

EA sucks though. They don't seem to have a fault sensor system, so they can't tell which chargers are down. Their speeds tend to be 50% of what they claim, i.e. ~80 for the 150KW and about 200 KW tops for the 300KW chargers. Tesla's charger network is far superior... for a billion reasons. But carmakers switching to tesla's port standard will fix nothing on its own. It's like we switched from micro USB to Lightning in the mid 2010. It would only have benefited Apple without a real net gain for everybody else.
 
I don't drive any more but it has crossed my mind to wonder how EV users fare in rural areas. Back in the days of gas or diesel powered cars (and before the age of cell phones), rural drivers knew two things: there are no payphones or gas stations in the boondocks. So yeah it was about planning ahead (re: gas) and also hoping your car wouldn't spring a prank off its shopping list while you were miles from anywhere but owls and the trees they hang out in.

So if you were stupid enough to run out of gas, especially in winter, your option was to sit in the car and freeze to death hoping someone would "come along" --yeah right, on a hill-country road in the wee hours-- or else suck it up and start hiking to the nearest farm, hoping the dogs you saw there the last time you stopped by would remember you kindly.

And now? Rural drivers still know two things: there are zillions of dead zones for cell signals in the boonies. And now not even any general stores with maybe a payphone and gas pumps or a homebrew charging station.

But drivers of both EVs and gas/diesel cars are in the same boat when out in the sticks. I always used to buy new-to-me cars and put up with the pranks that underwrote "FORD" jokes (Found On Road Dead) which even a Toyota could occasionally spring on a used car owner. Today if I were driving, I'd probably lease an EV and carry a phone with satellite connection options for emergencies. The out-of-fuel options are still the same except there are far fewer farms, and the dogs you might see on some of the cannabis operations are never going to be your friend. 😣
 
I don't drive any more but it has crossed my mind to wonder how EV users fare in rural areas. Back in the days of gas or diesel powered cars (and before the age of cell phones), rural drivers knew two things: there are no payphones or gas stations in the boondocks. So yeah it was about planning ahead (re: gas) and also hoping your car wouldn't spring a prank off its shopping list while you were miles from anywhere but owls and the trees they hang out in.

So if you were stupid enough to run out of gas, especially in winter, your option was to sit in the car and freeze to death hoping someone would "come along" --yeah right, on a hill-country road in the wee hours-- or else suck it up and start hiking to the nearest farm, hoping the dogs you saw there the last time you stopped by would remember you kindly.

And now? Rural drivers still know two things: there are zillions of dead zones for cell signals in the boonies. And now not even any general stores with maybe a payphone and gas pumps or a homebrew charging station.

But drivers of both EVs and gas/diesel cars are in the same boat when out in the sticks. I always used to buy new-to-me cars and put up with the pranks that underwrote "FORD" jokes (Found On Road Dead) which even a Toyota could occasionally spring on a used car owner. Today if I were driving, I'd probably lease an EV and carry a phone with satellite connection options for emergencies. The out-of-fuel options are still the same except there are far fewer farms, and the dogs you might see on some of the cannabis operations are never going to be your friend. 😣
Good news with EVs, they generally have a slow-charger you keep in the trunk that plugs into a standard 120V outlet. So if you’re stranded near any homes or businesses, you might at least find a kind stranger willing to let you plug in for a while to get a few miles of range…
 
I don't drive any more but it has crossed my mind to wonder how EV users fare in rural areas. Back in the days of gas or diesel powered cars (and before the age of cell phones), rural drivers knew two things: there are no payphones or gas stations in the boondocks. So yeah it was about planning ahead (re: gas) and also hoping your car wouldn't spring a prank off its shopping list while you were miles from anywhere but owls and the trees they hang out in.

So if you were stupid enough to run out of gas, especially in winter, your option was to sit in the car and freeze to death hoping someone would "come along" --yeah right, on a hill-country road in the wee hours-- or else suck it up and start hiking to the nearest farm, hoping the dogs you saw there the last time you stopped by would remember you kindly.

And now? Rural drivers still know two things: there are zillions of dead zones for cell signals in the boonies. And now not even any general stores with maybe a payphone and gas pumps or a homebrew charging station.

But drivers of both EVs and gas/diesel cars are in the same boat when out in the sticks. I always used to buy new-to-me cars and put up with the pranks that underwrote "FORD" jokes (Found On Road Dead) which even a Toyota could occasionally spring on a used car owner. Today if I were driving, I'd probably lease an EV and carry a phone with satellite connection options for emergencies. The out-of-fuel options are still the same except there are far fewer farms, and the dogs you might see on some of the cannabis operations are never going to be your friend. 😣
Good news with EVs, they generally have a slow-charger you keep in the trunk that plugs into a standard 120V outlet. So if you’re stranded near any homes or businesses, you might at least find a kind stranger willing to let you plug in for a while to get a few miles of range…

If you run out of juice, you're pretty much screwed, because it really hurts the high-voltage battery. EVs are the best way for people to learn thermodynamics. One does not have to consciously realize that an engine is a jurassic juice powered oven whose 30% doubles as a propulsion unit. An EV's efficiency is >92%, which means heating will cost you real miles. A 120V "trickle charge" would give you about 1-2KW that is about 3-9 miles of added range per hour.

That said, rural owners will also have ubiquitous access to home charging. My range in 10F was about 120-140 mi on 80% charge (with very very very comfortable heating settings). So generally speaking if your movements are within a 60mi radius, you're good all year long. It's not for the faint of heart though.
 
If you run out of juice, you're pretty much screwed, because it really hurts the high-voltage battery. EVs are the best way for people to learn thermodynamics. One does not have to consciously realize that an engine is a jurassic juice powered oven whose 30% doubles as a propulsion unit. An EV's efficiency is >92%, which means heating will cost you real miles. A 120V "trickle charge" would give you about 1-2KW that is about 3-9 miles of added range per hour.

That said, rural owners will also have ubiquitous access to home charging. My range in 10F was about 120-140 mi on 80% charge (with very very very comfortable heating settings). So generally speaking if your movements are within a 60mi radius, you're good all year long. It's not for the faint of heart though.

I used to think about it while driving up to Ithaca, about 180 miles round trip. Believe me, I thought about it!

Well as I say I don't drive now so I'm leaving it up to Instacart and FedEx/UPS to figure out how they like to fuel their vehicles to get to the boondocks and back again.
 
I used to think about it while driving up to Ithaca, about 180 miles round trip. Believe me, I thought about it!

Well as I say I don't drive now so I'm leaving it up to Instacart and FedEx/UPS to figure out how they like to fuel their vehicles to get to the boondocks and back again.
It isn't that big of a deal for most people, but people just don't realize a number of things. My car's batteries last >100,000 mi (likely mid 200K range) if kept consistently between 20 and 80% charge. If you have warm shoes (something I don't since. I moved to the "south") and a coat, the seat and steering wheel warmers keep you very comfortable with the heating off. If I drive with the aim of hypermiling, I could get 320mi range on a full charge. So that 180 mi roundtrip is easily doable without much effort on 99% of days.
 
It isn't that big of a deal for most people, but people just don't realize a number of things. My car's batteries last >100,000 mi (likely mid 200K range) if kept consistently between 20 and 80% charge. If you have warm shoes (something I don't since. I moved to the "south") and a coat, the seat and steering wheel warmers keep you very comfortable with the heating off. If I drive with the aim of hypermiling, I could get 320mi range on a full charge. So that 180 mi roundtrip is easily doable without much effort on 99% of days.
Heated seats are golden in an EV. Just a slight drain on the battery, yet you stay nice and warm…
 
Heated seats are golden in an EV. Just a slight drain on the battery, yet you stay nice and warm…
Steering wheel warmer is even better. It's like magic. I found some studies that it also helps heat regulation in the whole body (better cold tolerance, etc).
The seat warmers would take off a mile or two with my I3. WIth the ID4 I don't even see the impact on mileage at all. Seat vents with cooling and warming is the future of AC in EVs.
 
Steering wheel warmer is even better. It's like magic. I found some studies that it also helps heat regulation in the whole body (better cold tolerance, etc).
The seat warmers would take off a mile or two with my I3. WIth the ID4 I don't even see the impact on mileage at all. Seat vents with cooling and warming is the future of AC in EVs.
Sounds great..

Honestly I still just laugh when I read about heated seats. I guess it's because when I first started commuting to and from the mountains, I was driving a 1970-something VW bug, which of course only heated the car via heat from the engine itself. In the dead of winter, I was grateful just to have a little heat start trickling into the car after about 20 miles on the county roads. I had a Norwegian elkhound then, and she'd be in the back seat under an army blanket as we started the trip back to the city after the weekend.

So it would be like -20ºF and I'd be driving with the windows open a bit to keep vapor formation down, meanwhile scraping ice off the inside of the windshield with a rough washcloth for the first half hour, and once in awhile I'd catch sight of the dog in the rear-view mirror, looking at me from the back seat like "wait so why are we doing this again now?" -- and she had that thick fur coat on beneath the blanket!

I'd just laugh and tell her to suck it up, because "after all, you're a Norwegian." I could always tell when we'd reached liftoff heat in that car, because she'd sit up and shuck off the blanket. At that point I knew I could at least roll up the damn windows and expect the defroster to do a little work.

Gotta say when I got a Datsun with an actual heater in it, I was so excited I used to turn it on during chilly Sunday night runs to the city in August....
 
Sounds great..

Honestly I still just laugh when I read about heated seats. I guess it's because when I first started commuting to and from the mountains, I was driving a 1970-something VW bug, which of course only heated the car via heat from the engine itself. In the dead of winter, I was grateful just to have a little heat start trickling into the car after about 20 miles on the county roads. I had a Norwegian elkhound then, and she'd be in the back seat under an army blanket as we started the trip back to the city after the weekend.

So it would be like -20ºF and I'd be driving with the windows open a bit to keep vapor formation down, meanwhile scraping ice off the inside of the windshield with a rough washcloth for the first half hour, and once in awhile I'd catch sight of the dog in the rear-view mirror, looking at me from the back seat like "wait so why are we doing this again now?" -- and she had that thick fur coat on beneath the blanket!

I'd just laugh and tell her to suck it up, because "after all, you're a Norwegian." I could always tell when we'd reached liftoff heat in that car, because she'd sit up and shuck off the blanket. At that point I knew I could at least roll up the damn windows and expect the defroster to do a little work.

Gotta say when I got a Datsun with an actual heater in it, I was so excited I used to turn it on during chilly Sunday night runs to the city in August....
You should have gotten a Dachshund with the Datsun for a change up:)
 
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