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Signs of economic collapse

I wonder if those at the top who know better want the collapse to happen under Trump so they can attempt to blame him instead of the fact they've been engineering it for decades. "It wasn't me. It was Trump's insane policies." Not going to work, but they'll attempt it.

To be clear, they haven't been gunning for a collapse this entire time. They've just been abusing the system with the government letting them until this has become inevitable. At this point whatever the government does in an attempt to stop it there will be an equally as bad side effect. Without getting into the weeds, we are quickly approaching the calculation of an economic equation where historically the result was collapse or revolution every time.
 
I wonder if those at the top who know better want the collapse to happen under Trump so they can attempt to blame him instead of the fact they've been engineering it for decades. "It wasn't me. It was Trump's insane policies." Not going to work, but they'll attempt it.

To be clear, they haven't been gunning for a collapse this entire time. They've just been abusing the system with the government letting them until this has become inevitable. At this point whatever the government does in an attempt to stop it there will be an equally as bad side effect. Without getting into the weeds, we are quickly approaching the calculation of an economic equation where historically the result was collapse or revolution every time.
ohh recessions and crashes are a secondary business opportunity for these people. they might lose a little of their valuation but the more sudden the crash the closer it looks like Black Friday for billionaires. The only thing they aren't ready for is violence directed against them, but that's also much less likely to occur.
 
I had to claim bankruptcy at the age of 19 because banks offered me way too much credit at an immature age I didn't really qualify for other than my parents adding me to their credit cards at an even younger age. I still remember what the lawyer said back then. "If everybody who claimed bankruptcy or has poor credit in this country wasn't able to quickly reestablish good credit the economy would come to a grinding halt." That was back in the 90's.

So my question is, if there is a collapse or something major short of that and the majority of the country is in some kind of default, what's the point of paying off or even down your debt if you have no major assets, like a house, to lose? It seems at some point you're just a sucker. I'm not sure how this works, but some even suggest that if there is a collapse your debt effectively gets forgiven.
 


TL;DW AI is a massive circular Ponzi scheme fueling most of the US economy. Also they are purposely making it massive so the government will have to bail them out to avoid a complete economic collapse.
 


TL;DW AI is a massive circular Ponzi scheme fueling most of the US economy. Also they are purposely making it massive so the government will have to bail them out to avoid a complete economic collapse.

i take all videos like this with a grain of salt, but the level of circular financing going on there is extremely obvious
 
i take all videos like this with a grain of salt, but the level of circular financing going on there is extremely obvious

Also nobody is denying how dangerously much our economy is currently relying on the promise of AI. What's insulting about that is at minimum it will be a job destroyer. How does that in any way lead to economic prosperity? Maybe that's based on the new economic reporting standard that pretends 90% of the population doesn't exist.
 
I had to claim bankruptcy at the age of 19 because banks offered me way too much credit at an immature age I didn't really qualify for other than my parents adding me to their credit cards at an even younger age. I still remember what the lawyer said back then. "If everybody who claimed bankruptcy or has poor credit in this country wasn't able to quickly reestablish good credit the economy would come to a grinding halt." That was back in the 90's.

So my question is, if there is a collapse or something major short of that and the majority of the country is in some kind of default, what's the point of paying off or even down your debt if you have no major assets, like a house, to lose? It seems at some point you're just a sucker. I'm not sure how this works, but some even suggest that if there is a collapse your debt effectively gets forgiven.
I'm no economist so do just make of this what you will but I'd suggest that in the west we're sort of already in a sort of slow motion collapse. Some areas are a lot worse than others (Europe etc) and some have better future prospects than others (USA etc), but we're all currently slowly defaulting through inflation. Whether you personally want to pay back debt or not you're already doing so very time you buy something that costs more than it used to, I tend to think rightly or wrongly this is the default - after all unchecked Inflation will eventually wipe out all your debt. Now would you lend to a country that has uncontrolled inflation? But bear in mind that for the foreseeable future the US will always have people who need to lend to it (I'm assuming you're in the US Spartapus,) as you have the world reserve currency. Those borrowed dollars that are needed to buy energy then have to cycle back in terms of investment etc so even though you can personally default the system you would be in default to can't go bust*. (That's not strictly true for other nations).

It's worth trying to have a think about what debt actually is - mind when I try my head hurts... I'm certain if I try and run through it it will just confuse both of us so I'd suggest the following PDF... Money creation in the modern economy. also I've always found Yanis Varoufakis to be very perceptive and good at explaining all this stuff, and it's well worth seeking out his YouTube vids etc.

* Well until there's a truly global alternative imperial power 😉
 
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I'm no economist so do just make of this what you will but I'd suggest that in the west we're sort of already in a sort of slow motion collapse. Some areas are a lot worse than others (Europe etc) and some have better future prospects than others (USA etc), but we're all currently slowly defaulting through inflation. Whether you personally want to pay back debt or not you're already doing so very time you buy something that costs more than it used to, I tend to think rightly or wrongly this is the default - after all unchecked Inflation will eventually wipe out all your debt. Now would you lend to a country that has uncontrolled inflation? But bear in mind that for the foreseeable future the US will always have people who need to lend to it (I'm assuming you're in the US Spartapus,) as you have the world reserve currency. Those borrowed dollars that are needed to buy energy then have to cycle back in terms of investment etc so even though you can personally default the system you would be in default to can't go bust*. (That's not strictly true for other nations).

It's worth trying to have a think about what debt actually is - mind when I try my head hurts... I'm certain if I try and run through it it will just confuse both of us so I'd suggest the following PDF... Money creation in the modern economy. also I've always found Yanis Varoufakis to be very perceptive and good at explaining all this stuff, and it's well worth seeking out his YouTube vids etc.

* Well until there's a truly global alternative imperial power 😉

I also think, at least in the US, it was a mistake to believe that people would stop buying things just based on raising credit card interest rates. It stopped some spending at the lower economic levels because they were quickly maxed out but just above that people continued to spend and just paid the higher monthly payment until that was no longer sustainable...which seems is about now. A lot of people cope with stress by buying crap and our economy is largely based on buying crap, and I'm also sure there are feelings that you better stock up now before things really go sideways.

Then we have Trump who refuses to live in current reality. You can't go around the globe bragging about or threatening to deny access to US consumers while those people can't afford to buy anything.
 
One more worry to throw on the pile of economic doom:


Buy now, pay later services have exploded to 91.5 million users in the United States, according to the financial services firm Empower, with 25% using the services to finance their groceries as of earlier this year, according to survey data released in late October by lending marketplace Lending Tree.

These aren’t discretionary purchases — the designer bags and latest Apple headphones that BNPL was marketed for originally. Borrowers aren’t paying it all back, either. According to Lending Tree, default rates are accelerating: 42% of BNPL users made at least one late payment in 2025, up from 39% in 2024 and 34% in 2023.

This is subprime lending, but this time not for mortgages: but for daily necessities like groceries. But don't worry... the Trump administration is working on the problem:

As for why BNPL data isn’t more recent, thank regulatory upheaval. Under the Biden administration, the CFPB tried to treat BNPL transactions like credit card purchases, bringing them under Truth in Lending Act protections.

The Trump administration reversed course. In early May, the CFPB said it would not prioritize enforcement of that rule. Days later, CFPB acting director Russell T. Vought rescinded 67 interpretive rules, policy statements, and advisory opinions dating back to 2011, including the BNPL rule. The agency said the regulations provided “little benefit to consumers” and placed a “substantial burden” on regulated entities. (Translation: BNPL companies lobbied successfully.)
In fact, soon after, the CFPB released a new report with a surprisingly different message. Focusing only on first-time borrowers, the agency said customers with subprime or no credit repaid their BNPL loans 98% of the time and that there was no evidence that BNPL access causes debt stress.

The discrepancy between this rosy picture and the 42% late payment rate reveals the data gap at the heart of the problem: We currently don’t have good visibility into what happens to borrowers over time, especially those juggling multiple BNPL accounts. The optimistic report looked at first-time users; the concerning data comes from the entire user base.
Oops my bad, they are actually working to make it worse while covering it up 🤷‍♀️
 
One more worry to throw on the pile of economic doom:




This is subprime lending, but this time not for mortgages: but for daily necessities like groceries. But don't worry... the Trump administration is working on the problem:



Oops my bad, they are actually working to make it worse while covering it up 🤷‍♀️

I said years ago part of what needs to be reported in economic data is how much is being purchased with credit and break that down into economic groups as well. The second part is important because the few times they choose to report related credit data it's usually just the group that isn't leveraged to hell. Although that may not matter now as everyone and everything is leveraged to hell.
 
Also nobody is denying how dangerously much our economy is currently relying on the promise of AI. What's insulting about that is at minimum it will be a job destroyer. How does that in any way lead to economic prosperity? Maybe that's based on the new economic reporting standard that pretends 90% of the population doesn't exist.

It will do for the wealthy what it's always done: make them richer by paying fewer and fewer employees.

That's not sustainable and hasn't been for at least half a century now. How do consumers buy things if they're earning less and less money, or are not employed at all?

But do they think of these things? Maybe. Probably, even. But it's a can they are always willing to kick down the road. Or think they can buy their way out of with mergers and acquisitions.
 
It will do for the wealthy what it's always done: make them richer by paying fewer and fewer employees.

That's not sustainable and hasn't been for at least half a century now. How do consumers buy things if they're earning less and less money, or are not employed at all?

But do they think of these things? Maybe. Probably, even. But it's a can they are always willing to kick down the road. Or think they can buy their way out of with mergers and acquisitions.
This whole AI thing is non-trivial. At the moment, it's only good to replace bullshit jobs and bullshit jobs by definition served a purpose that is different from the job itself. So let's say you can fire 25% of your bureaucrats. These companies would have already done so if that would have worked on the long run. A lot of jobs' purpose is to keep people occupied so they don't revolt.

The only exception I can think of is lower level designer jobs, where let's say you are tasked to design the website or menu graphics of a restaurant, or when I was young, people used to make these really cool and elaborate posters for like Drum & Bass parties, and I can totally see those becoming AI generated now. But this wouldn't lead to societal collapse. Also, right now, seeing AI-based graphics work is a turn-off for me, and so will it be for the people whose feel AI to be a threat to their jobs. So as long as we can identify some fraction of AI graphics, humans will maintain an edge.
 


Best easy to understand explanation I’ve heard to date. A lot of other economics content creator nerds put some effort to say things in understandable to anybody terms but almost always at some point trail off into the weeds of terms only other economic nerds understand. Anyhow, red flags all over the place.
 
Reporting now that 119k jobs were added in September which was more than expected seems like just another action in a long line of many to manipulate the stock market upward. That was 2 months ago and since then we've heard about nothing but mass layoffs and minimal holiday surge hiring. If you are a serious investor and see that old data as a reason to invest now you are a moron.
 
Reporting now that 119k jobs were added in September which was more than expected seems like just another action in a long line of many to manipulate the stock market upward. That was 2 months ago and since then we've heard about nothing but mass layoffs and minimal holiday surge hiring. If you are a serious investor and see that old data as a reason to invest now you are a moron.
Stocks went down anyway. People know the AI bubble is gonna pop.
 
Stocks went down anyway. People know the AI bubble is gonna pop.

Yeah and private credit too. Operating behind closed doors without much regulation. And securitized subprime auto loans masquerading as high yield bonds.

Remember in the film Margin Call when Jeremy Irons' character (apparently based on the real life CEO of the eventually failed investment bank Lehman Bros) says about the game of musical chairs that "Right now, I don't hear... anything."​
Next thing he does is sell every mortgage based asset his traders can unload on unsuspecting Wall St colleagues.​
He's first out, and savvy, but it wasn't good enough. It set the stage for the global financial crash.​

We're not quite there yet again, and "some say" the next downturn can't be as bad... but Bloomberg's arrays of articles lately offer various fadeaway hints that once again it's almost time to short practically everything.

Don't forget most of the post-2007 financial guardrails have been chipped away at by the banks and fintech industry for at least 10 years. Private credit dependencies are pretty opaque. No one really knows how the hedging of their debts and securitizations may overlap, offset or reinforce each other. The recent collapse of a couple of companies where fraudulent receivables were used as collateral for multiple lenders was another warning sign the street is trying to shake off (or, disentangle itself from with respect to their own and other balance sheets).

I mentioned some of this to a friend recently, someone of nearly my age. He laughed ruefully and said yeah the one good thing about our grandkids and great grandkids is that they mostly all have gig jobs and so no money in the market... "what a country, eh?"


in a nutshell it's time to short everything.jpg

Also three big banks just took a second look at their prior commitment to help Trump support Milei's Argentine mess, and reneged on their earlier pledge to loan $20 billion, now saying they're going to set up a $5 billion kind of repo lending arrangement instead, since they can read the room and now know Trump's government won't keep a promise to bail them out. Even their $5 billion gig has details "to be arranged."

Meanwhile after rate cuts the banks have actually jacked rather than reduced the APRs on a lot of credit cards. If you don't carry a balance then who cares, right? But if you call them up anyway and demand an explanation, a new one I'd never heard before is "well we set the card rate on group experience so a individual's personal credit rating and payment history may not reflect average experience." Hmm? Say what? So what good is a great FICO score, an excellent credit rating, etc. etc., one might wonder, since your neighbor down the way with a subprime rating is who represents the customer the bank is still willing to issue a credit card to, en masse no less, in order to have subprime debt to feed to its ravenous securitizing department and so move that soon-to-be-bad debt off its books.

The end may not be near, there's always another round of this stuff once a crash occurs and the surviving banks get up off the mat and look around to see what else they can help exploit before it's time to load up the planes and head to some high desert plateau behind walls they all hope they can build high enough to stave off peasants with pitchforks. Used to be the Caymans etc., but climate change suggests islands are becoming a dicey hangout for offshore wealth. 🙄
 
Another interesting side effect of the jobs report (old because of the shutdown) is the fed might not cut rates in December because that's how they see things based on those numbers. So I guess since our government is run by a bunch of destructive psychopaths we're going to go with play stupid games, win stupid prizes solutions.

As far as personal defaulting, I heard some are planning to take out a loan to pay off all their credit card debt and then default on that loan. I'm unsure on how that is any better than just defaulting on all individual accounts. Anybody have any insight into this?
 
Because it needs to be said. We did our job as consumers which apparently is one of our biggest strengths and in return greedy corporations and the parasitic finance industry with an assist from the corrupt government repeatedly fucks us over and then tries to make us the bad guys for doing that job. This system pattern does need to be burned to the ground.

My biggest issue with the government reopening is you started to see communities assist each other during the shutdown and we're going to need a lot more of that mentality and action to get to the other side of this. The institutions as they exist aren't going to save us. They will either fail us or be a brief stop gap pausing the inevitable.
 
My biggest issue with the government reopening is you started to see communities assist each other during the shutdown and we're going to need a lot more of that mentality and action to get to the other side of this. The institutions as they exist aren't going to save us. They will either fail us or be a brief stop gap pausing the inevitable.
welcome to the postcommunist reality I grew up in🙂
 
Time was when gambling was just a part of the shadow economy of a neighborhood... stuff like employing kids as numbers runners and grownups as gruesome enforcers of collections on illegal sports betting losses. No more. Now in the USA it's (also) a $150 billion behemoth making money for a few gigantic corporate "houses" while devastating countless lives, hammering fans with ads, destroying faith in the integrity of sports and providing employment for the political lobbies working hard to minimize the tax revenues that attracted states to the idea of legalizing online gambling to begin with.

Gift link to Phila Inquirer piece, no reggie required to read, good for 30 days from 11/22/25


Today, more than one in five Americans bet on sports. More alarmingly, nearly half of men between the ages of 18 and 49 have an active online sports betting account.

More gambling has translated into more debt. One quarter of sports gamblers said they have been unable to pay a bill — including their rent — because of debts from wagers. And 15% said they have taken out a loan to fund their sports gambling habit.


Most elected officials ignore the social costs of problem gambling because of the easy tax revenues that roll in. Harrisburg lawmakers may be the worst gambling addicts.

Since 2004, Pennsylvania has legalized slots, table games, sports gambling, and online betting, while adding pricier lottery games with little concern for the economic harm and increased addiction. The influential gambling lobby successfully blocked efforts in Harrisburg this year to increase the tax on sports betting.


As for enjoyment of games, well... even up in Canada it has come to the attention of fans and concerned sports / health officials as well that gambling has become so pervasive an intrusion into enjoyment and conduct of sport.


t’s been more than three years since sports gambling was legalized in Canada, and the advertising deluge has yet to slow. Pre-game and post-game broadcasts are sponsored by gambling companies, and their commercials dominate ad breaks. Their logos are slathered over jerseys and stadiums, gambling stats appear during play and, most insidiously, commentators routinely inform you of how much money you could make if you grab your phone and gamble right now.
 
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