So, where do we go from here?

[Thomas Veil]

In case you hadn't heard about it already, please read theSeb's announcement about The Snug's future.

That of course raises the question: where do we go from here?

I've discussed this with theSeb and others on Discord and Slack, and there are a few options that don't involve going back to MR or TA...as if some of us even could.

Please bear with me as none of these ideas are fully formed, they are simply here for us to discuss.

1. arstechnica

theSeb describes this forum as a "well known hive of educated discussion and liberalism". I was not that familiar with it, but that sounds like a pretty accurate description.

Pros: it's got a lot of members already and it would cost us nothing to join (AFAIK). Possible cons: it's got a lot of members, so a small group like us may kind of get lost in the crowd there. Also it's got rules, regs and mods, just like MacRumors. Not that they're necessarily as capricious, but some of us have an aversion to the very idea.

2. The Snug continues under new management.

As Super King suggests at Discord, perhaps someone would want to keep the existing site and take over payment and operation of it.

Pros: everything stays the same. Cons: easier said than done--at least to me. Not all of us have the technical skills or the finances to do that. (Of course in reference to the cost of running a site, we could always try some kind of fundraising, like making this a paid membership site, for example.)

3. A similar site, under the same name.

In this scenario we'd basically try to find the most economical forum hosting solution we can, and then migrate there. I did investigate one host and, using their free trial, actually created the Snug 2.0 version, as it were, that is linked above.

Pros: it's not Xenforo, but it's similar. It sounds like it may even be able to import this existing forum, so we wouldn't lose it. From what I understand, the host, websitetoolbox, handles the technical side. You built the forum. Cons: you still have to pay for it, though it may be less expensive than some other solutions. In case you're wondering, this is what pricing looks like.

4. Discord.

Not the ideal solution, but a fallback.

Pros: ? I'm not sure how this kind of platform is funded. Cons: obviously it can't be divided into topics, threads, whatever, the way a real forum can. And some, like Scepticalscribe, have said in the past that they dislike the idea.

Please feel very free to correct me or expand on some of these thoughts. Thank you.

 

[SouprMatt]

I haven’t ever tried installing forum software. Could you install phpbb on a cheap (under $10/month) shared hosting? Or would that setup not be robust enough to handle it?

 

[Scepticalscribe]

Well, for my part, I'm truly sorry to see The Snug - as it currently exists - closing, for, I have found it to be a civilised place where politics - and other matters - can be discussed without foaming at the mouth in inarticulate fury for it is a place where insult has not replaced reasoned argument and discourse and differences of opinion have always been expressed with respect, while reserving the right to disagree fundamentally with what was written by your interlocutor.

That is most unfortunate.

Although it is a small forum, I must say that I quite like the congenial atmosphere, which is warm and welcoming with a very welcome absence of snark and edginess.

 

[Apple fanboy]

I’ve not been as frequently a poster as I could have been due to various factors. But it’s always been a pleasant corner of the internet.

 

[Jay Mysteri0]

To be honest, I'm not sure if I want to go thru going somewhere else.

I really appreciate that my time ending in this place, didn't involve personalities gone out of control like other places.

But it does seem like we end up in one place, then some move to another, while others stay. In the case of Snug it started with great intentions, but those that did stay here were in smaller numbers. Which makes it understandable not to keep this place up after the "lease" is up. I miss the people that we talked to in the previous places, but so many despite what was said either stayed or just left entirely. I can respect that. It made Snug feel "cozier", but it also meant less interaction.

I don't know if could deal with another large place like ARS. Nor do I want to take up the responsibility of maintaining a new place. As a few may know, I am on Discord as I game, and many use it for communication. Which means other areas I belong to, I see messages all the time during the day and communicate back & forth. So I can always be found there as Jay Mysteri0#5159. If someone is brave enough to start another forum I'll be happy to post.

I just think after the drama elsewhere recently & the Snug ending, it might be a sign to take a break for awhile.

I've appreciated everyone here though, and will make the most before the doors close.

 

[theSeb]

I haven’t ever tried installing forum software. Could you install phpbb on a cheap (under $10/month) shared hosting? Or would that setup not be robust enough to handle it?

It could handle it, but phpbb requires some technical skills to keep the lights running when things inevitably go wrong (and they do), keep backups, restore when necessary and other janitorial duties.

 

[lizkat]

To be honest, I'm not sure if I want to go thru going somewhere else.

I really appreciate that my time ending in this place, didn't involve personalities gone out of control like other places.

But it does seem like we end up in one place, then some move to another, while others stay. In the case of Snug it started with great intentions, but those that did stay here were in smaller numbers. Which makes it understandable not to keep this place up after the "lease" is up. I miss the people that we talked to in the previous places, but so many despite what was said either stayed or just left entirely. I can respect that. It made Snug feel "cozier", but it also meant less interaction.

I don't know if could deal with another large place like ARS. Nor do I want to take up the responsibility of maintaining a new place. As a few may know, I am on Discord as I game, and many use it for communication. Which means other areas I belong to, I see messages all the time during the day and communicate back & forth. So I can always be found there as Jay Mysteri0#5159. If someone is brave enough to start another forum I'll be happy to post.

I just think after the drama elsewhere recently & the Snug ending, it might be a sign to take a break for awhile.

I've appreciated everyone here though, and will make the most before the doors close.

Couldn't have expressed my own feelings and intent any better. Maybe more adventures in real life instead will be my aim at winter's end... assuming covid doesn't become any more rambunctious than it has been.

Meanwhile I have appreciated efforts of site owners and mods to offer alternatives to those larger (and misnamed, to my mind) "social" media platforms. But it can become tiresome to have to reboot a presence somewhere else when one of these smaller sites closes up shop or decides --understandably enough-- that the hassle and expense outweigh value to the owner.

 

[theSeb]

Maybe more adventures in real life instead will be my aim at winter's end...

This is one of the biggest reasons why I have lost interest in online discussions. I realised that I am not getting younger and have discovered one of the biggest loves of my life after a 10 year break - surfing. I've been exploring the coast line and surfing, or paddle boarding, every day. I get up at around 5 am, or so, every day to go to the beach. Between all of that and work, I find time to be precious and I am normally too tired in the evenings to bother discussing anything online, or worry about politics. I am in the best shape I've been for a long time, both physically and mentally, and feel great.

 

[TBL]

^I feel much the same, even though I am only 24. I'll be sad to see this site go, but the fact is that I've been trying to lower my usage of social media, online discussion forums, and the internet in general over the past year and I've found that the less time I spend online, the more content I am. High internet use correlates with increased tension, more anger and overall unhappiness. It isn't even necessarily about the site and its content (though the more negative the content, the worse effect it has on my mental health), but about the time I spend sitting and posting or staring at my phone (an obvious addiction for me) as opposed to engaging with the world or doing things that are more important. So I likely won't be going anywhere new after this and I think I'll be better off for it.

 

[lizkat]

^I feel much the same, even though I am only 24. I'll be sad to see this site go, but the fact is that I've been trying to lower my usage of social media, online discussion forums, and the internet in general over the past year and I've found that the less time I spend online, the more content I am. High internet use correlates with increased tension, more anger and overall unhappiness. It isn't even necessarily about the site and its content (though the more negative the content, the worse effect it has on my mental health), but about the time I spend sitting and posting or staring at my phone (an obvious addiction for me) as opposed to engaging with the world or doing things that are more important. So I likely won't be going anywhere new after this and I think I'll be better off for it.

You're another of those I will miss, no matter my agreement that reducing time online can be a wise move.

I do hope for some sort of continuation or migration from this site to another one invented or discovered by other members here. I will keep popping into this place in the meantime hoping that there will be news of a place we can at least set up an account if not necessarily spend much time there.

Personally I'd be willing to help fund the thing but past that couldn't promise to spend much time. The older I get, the more the real world beckons, not with a bucket list so much as just happiness resuming explorations begun long ago. Quilting and gardening are not least in that mix, at least so long as I retain physical health and eyesight!

 

[Thomas Veil]

I would be willing to continue this site, but I will need to talk to theSeb behind the scenes, as it were, to see whether I have the prowess to pull it off.

It would have to be an economical site, too. The one I mentioned takes care of all the hosting and has most of the Xenforo features, but the cheapest plan is something like $400/yr., which is rather hefty for such a small community. Less expensive hosting can be had, I know, but I'd handle the install and maintenance.

What I'm not willing to do is give up easily. I get what folks are saying about online life, but I do get to work and visit friends and still find time to discuss things here--since I don't do Facebook or Twitter or any of that stuff. Most of us have known each other for quite awhile and have been through the fire with MacRumors and That Other Place, and I always kind of thought fondly of you guys and am not ready to call it a day.

 

[theSeb]

Xenforo at the moment costs $864 per year ($72 per month). Then there is also the url. This is prepaid for 3 years (so 2 years left) and cost me around $74 for 3 years, including privacy protection blah blah blah.

 

[lizkat]

How about passing the hat for a one-time contribution to get a cushion established and then figuring out a tier of relatively small suggested (monthly or quarterly?) recurring onations to stay ahead of the money curve a little. To me something like that would sure beat all of us having to go scout up another new venue even if we only drop in now and then.

 

[shadow puppet]

If I could contribute right now, I would. I apologize I cannot.

It's been a rough 2 years dealing with medical issues I never saw coming. The latest being 2 emergency hospital stays last year, Memorial weekend for an NSAID bleed and a 4 day Labor Day stay for an out of the blue AFib/Tachicardia attack. My BNP was 2300 (should be 100 or less). I looked this up while in the hospital to read "heart failure". Then just last week I learned I have a ruptured achilles that I have no clue how happened since I don't recall any trauma. Yesterday, I learned the Lab kid staying with me for 2+ years on loan from a breeder friend when my Lab suddenly died of cancer in May of 2020 during lockdown, needs to go home in a few weeks. Mattie, the "loaner" Lab, is the only thing that has kept me going.

Bottom line, the only way I think I can pay my medical bills and too much credit card debt I generated in order to survive when all work came to a screeching halt during the pandemic, is to sell my house. Somehow, I have to pack up my house all by my lonesome on a ruptured achilles. I have no place to go so will probably live at a campground somewhere until I can figure life out.

Sorry. That's way more than I ever share but I've really enjoyed the people I've met here and some remaining at TA. I just feel badly I cannot help contribute at this time.

 

[lizkat]

If I could contribute right now, I would. I apologize I cannot.

It's been a rough 2 years dealing with medical issues I never saw coming. The latest being 2 emergency hospital stays last year, Memorial weekend for an NSAID bleed and a 4 day Labor Day stay for an out of the blue AFib/Tachicardia attack. My BNP was 2300 (should be 100 or less). I looked this up while in the hospital to read "heart failure". Then just last week I learned I have a ruptured achilles that I have no clue how happened since I don't recall any trauma. Yesterday, I learned the Lab kid staying with me for 2+ years on loan from a breeder friend when my Lab suddenly died of cancer in May of 2020 during lockdown, needs to go home in a few weeks. Mattie, the "loaner" Lab, is the only thing that has kept me going.

Bottom line, the only way I think I can pay my medical bills and too much credit card debt I generated in order to survive when all work came to a screeching halt during the pandemic, is to sell my house. Somehow, I have to pack up my house all by my lonesome on a ruptured achilles. I have no place to go so will probably live at a campground somewhere until I can figure life out.

Sorry. That's way more than I ever share but I've really enjoyed the people I've met here and some remaining at TA. I just feel badly I cannot help contribute at this time.

Get some legal assistance with bankruptcy options... and forget about shelling out for stuff like this forum! You're not a freeloader here, you are a participant and contributor of ideas.

 

[Thomas Veil]

Do not feel bad at all. Your presence is the best possible contribution you can make.

I'm sorry to hear you're going through such tough times. Best wishes to you, my friend.

 

[Thomas Veil]

BTW there are some discussions on Discord about keeping this place open. Keep your fingers crossed. Smoke 'em if you got 'em.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

If steps are taken to ensure that this site is to be kept open, please do keep us informed, as I, for one, would be very sorry to see it disappear.

 

[P___X]

This is sad news, but I suspected it was coming. I'm happy to chip in. I actually tried to do it while abroad but my CC declined then and then I forgot.
Personally, I feel similarly to others, the less social media the better, but also, my practice and research are concurrently ramping up exponentially, so I have a lot less time (and interest) to post than before.

 

[Thomas Veil]

SouprMatt and I are working on a hosting solution, and I am currently experimenting with forum software. Things are still in the formative stages so it's a bit early to go into details.