The issue with not being able to "see" color or race

[Jay Mysteri0]

Let's get this out of the way first, it's a noble thing to believe one doesn't see color / race. It's F'N SPECTACULAR when it's true. The problem? When people HAVE to tell you this, it's possible it isn't true. It's cover, a shield to deflect from criticism. For avoiding the talks of why diversity is actually needed. The statistical chance you can't find anyone of color in your field, especially if it's entertainment, I'm betting is pretty low. Especially if your field involves selling a product to the masses, it's especially helpful if one can avoid shooting themselves in both feet, by having a PoC / any color, in the room to go "Uh, guys? No."

Case in point.

Amid Criticism, Wizards Of The Coast Quietly Removes Racist Lore From Dungeons & Dragons [Updated]

The recently published Astral Adventurer’s Guide drew criticism over language and art that mirrored the anti-Black racism of earlier editions of D&D

kotaku.com

Dungeons & Dragons publisher Wizards of the Coast has quietly removed language from its newly released Spelljammer setting that came under fire for racist overtones. While its D&D Beyond online tools no longer contain references to a primate-like race becoming “sapient” through enslavement, the already-published physical books still contain the problematic language, as well as depictions of a primate-like race that closely mirror the racist imagery of minstrel shows.

The new Astral Adventurer’s Guide, a setting source book for the revived Spelljammer setting, was published last month. The book swiftly drew criticism for its depictions of a primate-like race whose backstory involves enslavement and forced experimentation to alter and advance their physical and mental capacities. A variety of outlets have highlighted the issue, while many D&D players and experts took to Twitter to express frustration and confusion over what is an ongoing racism problem that dates back to the origin of the game itself.

Dungeons & Dragons is no stranger to issues concerning race and representation. But despite a history of problematic and directly racist depictions of peoples in its fictional worlds, the new Astral Adventurer’s Guide offers up lore that includes the “hadozee.” These are a race of primates who, through slavery and forced experimentation, become “sapient.” This fictional history was also accompanied by imagery that mirrors real-world racist, anti-Black imagery from 19th and 20th century minstrel shows.

Wizards of the Coast has stealthily removed references to slavery in the online rules found on D&D Beyond, its online storefront that offers both digital rulebooks and tools such as dice and character sheets. However, the company hasn’t made any indication that it will print updated versions of the physical books, and the controversial artwork can still be seen in various entries on the site.

The company hasn’t made any public statements concerning the hadozee race or the stealthy D&D Beyond updates. It has, however, been regularly updating players on the status and updates of the “One D&D” playtest, which includes the term “Race,” for one of the game’s mechanic—a word many other publishers of TTRPGs have dropped as a part of a larger effort to address the legacy of racist language in tabletop role-playing games.

This latest concern over racist overtones in D&D follows a public commitment from the publisher to address its legacy of systemic racism in its products and to do so in a transparent way. In 2020, Wizards of the Coast released a statement in which it committed to making products that better reflect the diversity of its players. It also pledged to reprint recent books such as Curse of Strahd and Tomb of Annihilation, which had also come under scrutiny for what Wizards itself described as “racially insensitive” text. In its 2020 announcement addressing diversity and the legacy of racism in its products, Wizards also made the following commitments:

As someone who played D&D a lifetime ago, before it was brought by Wizards of the Coast, I can tell you the game had more than it's share of passive racism. Since most fantasy settings are always presumed to be of European leanings, any other race is practically exotic. Being Asian or Black is like being of a fantasy race. You're that guy from the Colt 45 commercials who's suddenly part of a space saga, where absolutely NO ONE else looks like you and it isn't a thing. We aren't even going to get into the baggage that came with there being specifically Dark Elves, and any other elves. There were people from many races playing D&D, but they were never part of the creative that went into fashioning the official stuff. So we always got the middle ages European version of fantasy as the default, and epic grand adventures of traveling to the "exotic" far East to see more tan people. Black people? Well...

Maybe not.

This was supposedly going to change when the makes of the Magic the Gathering card game decided to buy the makers of Dungeons & Dragons. But as a few times have shown, it seems like the same problem exists in some fashion, and it always involves the product getting to the public, for the public to point out what the "colorblind" can't see.

If your customers of ALL races are pointing out the blatant racial insensitivities, ...you're fucking up. Something that doesn't need to happen.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

Being a woman in such a context (classic gaming cultures) was also seen as "exotic", or mere eye-candy, and one was not encouraged to want to be anything different. (A leader? A ruler? A competent military commander? An autonomous being with an independent identity?)

This was a white, male (and usually heterosexual, at that) fantasy world, one which was pretty much, middle class, as well, and anyone else who dared attempt to enter these worlds who did not fall into those categories (as defined by their creators) could have their access (as in whether you were deemed to "belong") revoked, for such permissions were completely conditional, which, is, of course, the very definition of what we mean when we use the word "privilege".

 

[SouprMatt]

One can see this bias whenever a sci-fi or fantasy movie dares to include a non-white character. A black stormtrooper? Boycott Star Wars!!! The comments at MR when Apple TV showed a trailer for Foundation were appalling, just constant whining about wokeness, insisting that all the characters (whose race hadn’t even been mentioned in the book) should have been white men in the tv show. As if an imaginary society, millions of years (and light-years) away would also be dominated by white male humans?

For a group of people who claim to love imagination, they often seem to have very little of it themselves.

 

[ronntaylor]

One can see this bias whenever a sci-fi or fantasy movie dares to include a non-white character. A black stormtrooper? Boycott Star Wars!!! The comments at MR when Apple TV showed a trailer for Foundation were appalling, just constant whining about wokeness, insisting that all the characters (whose race hadn’t even been mentioned in the book) should have been white men in the tv show. As if an imaginary society, millions of years (and light-years) away would also be dominated by white male humans?

For a group of people who claim to love imagination, they often seem to have very little of it themselves.

The meltdown over the casting for "The Rings of Power" is hilarious. Not to mention for Sandman. Regarding the former, people are insisting that Tolkien would not want races changed for characters (mind you, we're talking about elves and such!!). And for the latter, some of the same "critics" conveniently overlook that the actual creator and executive producer for the series is the very person that changed races and/or gender for major characters from his novels. 🤦‍♂️

 

[Scepticalscribe]

I well (nay, vividly) recall the wild howls of deranged outrage emanating from such quarters (I can still hear the long, lingering echoes of this quite distinctive sound) when it was decided that a particular representation of Dr Who should choose to make an appearance presenting as female; I have no doubt that similar outrage would have greeted the appearance of an ethnically diverse Dr Who.

As if one could only (or should only) choose to represent (or wish to have represented) the human state as a white, heterosexual, middle class, male.

 

[AG_PharmD]

I can’t comment on the gaming aspect of this, but when I was getting my PharmD (doctor of pharmacy) as a white male (assuming we consider Jews white which most people do these days, primary exception being white supremacists) I was actually in the minority, especially by the end of the program. IIRC the average PharmD program was about 70% female. The majority was comprised of Asian, Indian, or Middle Easterners. There were a fair number of Black students but unfortunately there were definitely a minority by the end of the program- there’s a pretty high attrition rate in general so beginning with a low number is going to lead to even lower numbers. My boss is female, as is her boss.

The trend of woman’s success and dominance is also apparent in MD programs. Obviously there is also a high number of minorities excelling here as well.

My mom is allegedly retiring next year as orthopedic surgeon- a 65 year old female orthopedic surgeon is basically unheard of. Even today very few woman are in this specialty. Take a look at graduating class pictures and there might be one or two females. There is this notion only strong men can reset bones.

My sister is an oral surgeon with two doctorates. Not long ago this was also very much a male dominated field but recently it’s become somewhere around 50/50 if not better.

That said women still face discrimination as healthcare practitioners, particularly from patients but occasionally (and I would argue decreasingly) from other practitioners. There are still those who believe males are inherently more competent, which is frustrating considering often many best I know practitioners are women. The more common problem which is far less pronounced are patients who expect a higher level of maternal-like compassion from female providers.

Anyways, I went off the rails a bit there, but I am well aware many fields don’t have have the representation they should- particularly at higher levels of management. I’d like to think things are beginning to change in that respect though.

To some extent there is a deeper problem beginning with educational quality, attainment, accessibility, and culture. But that’s another discussion.

 

[Jay Mysteri0]

I think it's when you see the complaining so often when you are a PoC, you wonder about those who whine about diversity & wokeness.



Everything is good & right with their world as long as they are center of it, when others are allowed in the same space it's an unforgivable intrusion & unfairness heaped upon them.

 

[Herdfan]

One can see this bias whenever a sci-fi or fantasy movie dares to include a non-white character.

I generally don't care. Stormtrooper? no don't care. Make them Black, Asian, Indian. No biggie.

But I am not a fan when a character I grew up with is suddenly female? It just kills the vibe of that character for me. Unless it is Robin. Feel free to make him female. 🙂 🤣

 

[Scepticalscribe]

Well, male is the standard default setting for everything deemed, or considered, human, of course, and anything else is viewed as either a regrettable lapse, an inferior imitation, or pure deviance from a desired (male) norm.

However, when Shakespeare's Players performed his plays, even the female parts were played by men.

So, the Juliet (or Desdemona, or Lady MacBeth, or Ophelia) one grew up with in the late 16th century, was actually male.

Who ever knew that Juliet was actually supposed to be female, except in one's febrile, fertile imagination, or in the script of the play?

Anyway, there are men who cannot conceive of the possibility of a female role outside of the standard repertoire they have grown up with, namely, the same sort of role a woman has already - or may have already - played in their lives (for agency and autonomy are, of course, not possible for women), and the fact that such roles are invariably defined by their relationship to the male in question: Wife, mother, daughter, girlfriend, mistress, granny, possession, arm candy, nurse, secretary, and perhaps victim, as well.

Actually, I find that wild male rage at the appearance of unexpected female characters - some of whom may have been male in an earlier incarnation, or interpretation - almost funny; perhaps it is driven partly by fear.

Personally, as with Dr Who, I love to see whole worlds - and characters - interpreted by female actors; reverting to Shakespeare, the very best performance of King Lear that I have ever attended featured a female Fool (and, a study of the text of the play should serve to confirm that that character's gender is never actually clarified).

 

[P___X]

The comments at MR when Apple TV showed a trailer for Foundation were appalling, just constant whining about wokeness, insisting that all the characters (whose race hadn’t even been mentioned in the book) should have been white men in the tv show. As if an imaginary society, millions of years (and light-years) away would also be dominated by white male humans?

For a group of people who claim to love imagination, they often seem to have very little of it themselves.

Ironically, Asimov, at least in the Robotics/Foundation Universe was notorious for having very minimalistic description of the looks of characters. He only mentioned race in one of the dozen books (one of the books from the interregnum. Stars Like Dust, IIRC), and he was very explicit about how skin color is just a superficial characteristic that in a different situation could be reversed as sign of superiority. So yeah, Foundation absolutely had the space to have Black characters. Salvor Hardin was defined as a male AFAIR, but again, 99% of Asimov's characters had no gender-based motivations/back stories.

Well, male is the standard default setting for everything deemed, or considered, human, of course, and anything else is viewed as either a regrettable lapse, an inferior imitation, or pure deviance from a desired (male) norm.

And obviously it shouldn't be. As a matter of fact, the default setting for a human in biology is female. The Y-chromosome essentially only codes a gene that produces a protein that prevents female sex organs from developing. One of the obstacles in changing the gender of a character to a woman however is that the actress now has to overcome the inertia of implicit gender-based motivations, i.e., has to act 10x better to get the same success as the default male actor in the role. I'm generally more in favor of writing good characters who also happen to be women.

The trend of woman’s success and dominance is also apparent in MD programs. Obviously there is also a high number of minorities excelling here as well.

My mom is allegedly retiring next year as orthopedic surgeon- a 65 year old female orthopedic surgeon is basically unheard of. Even today very few woman are in this specialty. Take a look at graduating class pictures and there might be one or two females. There is this notion only strong men can reset bones.

My sister is an oral surgeon with two doctorates. Not long ago this was also very much a male dominated field but recently it’s become somewhere around 50/50 if not better.

This is by no accident and the reason is residency and US work culture: The average US medical grad is 27 years old. Stack 4 years of postgrad training on that, that's 31. Stack a few 100K student loan debt on that. Considering that fertility starts sharply dropping after age 35 and risk of 21 trisomy rises, the system gives a very narrow window for women to start a family. A friend of mine carried out 2 pregnancies during residency, where they get 6 weeks of maternity leave per year and residents are so stretched the entire program can implode of you lose a resident. So becoming a mother as a resident is super hero level achievement if you ask me. For surgical residencies it's even worse, because these women have to stand all day long in the OR etc.

A 2018 study in the Journal of the American Medical Association surveyed women who were pregnant during surgical residency and found that 39 percent considered dropping out and nearly 30 percent would advise female medical students to pursue a different career. The attrition rate for female surgical residents is 25 percent, 10 percentage points more than their male counterparts.

When the Surgeon Is a Mom (Published 2019)

Nearly 40 percent of pregnant surgery residents consider dropping out. Many wonder: Why can’t the system accommodate motherhood?

www.nytimes.com

So a lot of what you see with PharmD and Non-surgical medical residency programs dominated by women is partly this.

 

[Jay Mysteri0]

Reading the vitriol that Amazon's Rings of Power series is getting, is pretty eye opening



If you've watched Sandman ( which had it's small share of the same drama ) you know who Neil Gaiman is. A man who's a bit of Tolkien die hard himself.







Which makes a point I've often believed. IF more people were exposed to diversity BEFORE college ( if entering college is an option ), perhaps there wouldn't be so much myopia concerning diversity.

 

[SouprMatt]

Reading the vitriol that Amazon's Rings of Power series is getting, is pretty eye opening



If you've watched Sandman ( which had it's small share of the same drama ) you know who Neil Gaiman is. A man who's a bit of Tolkien die hard himself.







Which makes a point I've often believed. IF more people were exposed to diversity BEFORE college ( if entering college is an option ), perhaps there wouldn't be so much myopia concerning diversity.

With Jackson, MS in the news, we’re reminded of why schools are not diverse. It was the integration of schools in the city due to Brown v. Board of Education that led most white people to leave the city so their kids wouldn’t have to encounter any black kids at school.

And crap like that still happens today, with a mostly-white area of Atlanta attempting to secede from the city and incorporate separately. There’s always an excuse that tries to explain away the blatant racism, but it’s always laughable.

 

[EricWN]

The fantasy genre is also often times a first step into role playing and imagination, and for many this happens not in adulthood but in teenage life. As Pratchett used to write: Stories of imagination tend to upset those without one.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

I find myself constantly amazed by the sheer rage - the wild, outraged vehemence - in the tone written by some of the (yes, almost invariably written by men, and usually white, heterosexual, and probably middle class men, at that) comments - irrespective of whether they have taken the form of intemperate tweets or simply idiotic posts on MR, or elsewhere.

It is simply astonishing. One does idly wonder about how threatened they must seem to feel, for this is about feelings, not "authenticity".

And that quote:

" "I'm not racist, [or sexist] I just care about historical accuracy," I say about a TV show that includes hobbits and elves." Wonderful.

 

[Herdfan]

I find myself constantly amazed by the sheer rage - the wild, outraged vehemence - in the tone written by some of the (yes, almost invariably written by men, and usually white, heterosexual, and probably middle class men, at that) comments - irrespective of whether they have taken the form of intemperate tweets or simply idiotic posts on MR, or elsewhere.

If you ever just want to feel really uncomfortable, look at this video:

Men read hateful tweets to female sportswriters

Female sportswriters Julie DiCaro and our own Sarah Spain sit face-to-face with men reading hate-filled tweets to raise awareness for online bullying.

www.espn.com

They get guys off the street to read some of the Tweets aimed at female sports reporters Sarah Spain and Julie DeCaro to their faces. Very illuminating, but also very hard to watch.

 

[ronntaylor]

Tolkien has been dead for nearly 50 years. There's a great deal of shit he wouldn't approve of, so what does it matter what his thoughts might have been for what's happening now? His estate could have kept the characters+ instead of grabbing 100s of millions $$$

 

[hulugu]

I generally don't care. Stormtrooper? no don't care. Make them Black, Asian, Indian. No biggie.

But I am not a fan when a character I grew up with is suddenly female? It just kills the vibe of that character for me. Unless it is Robin. Feel free to make him female. 🙂 🤣

Ronald Moore's choice in "Battlestar Galactica" to make Starbuck a woman was brilliant, and didn't bother me at all because even though I really liked Dirk Benedict's version as as kid, the character in the modern series was interesting and engaging. The ultimate ability for Moore and company to pull off the series is another matter, but Kara Thrace kicked ass. And, the reimagined Boomer worked as well.

Female Dr. Smith in the "Lost in Space" series? Fun, entirely because of Parker Posey.

Write me a good character, get a good actor to portray that character, and I don't care.

 

[hulugu]

I find myself constantly amazed by the sheer rage - the wild, outraged vehemence - in the tone written by some of the (yes, almost invariably written by men, and usually white, heterosexual, and probably middle class men, at that) comments - irrespective of whether they have taken the form of intemperate tweets or simply idiotic posts on MR, or elsewhere.

It is simply astonishing. One does idly wonder about how threatened they must seem to feel, for this is about feelings, not "authenticity".

And that quote:

" "I'm not racist, [or sexist] I just care about historical accuracy," I say about a TV show that includes hobbits and elves." Wonderful.

Our female reporters get regular rape and death threats. Our male reporters receive one-tenth the outrage.

 

[SouprMatt]

Talking while black? 4 years in jail.

Pregnant Black activist serving 4 years for protest comments

COLUMBIA, S.C. (AP) — A pregnant Black activist serving four years in prison for her behavior at racial justice protests will have her sentence reconsidered as she struggles to reach her due date behind bars.

apnews.com

What a pile of 🐂💩. Cops can gun people down with no penalty, but if a black woman says something unkind to them, a jury will lock her up for 4 years?

 

[Scepticalscribe]

Talking while black? 4 years in jail.

Pregnant Black activist serving 4 years for protest comments

COLUMBIA, S.C. (AP) — A pregnant Black activist serving four years in prison for her behavior at racial justice protests will have her sentence reconsidered as she struggles to reach her due date behind bars.

apnews.com

What a pile of 🐂💩. Cops can gun people down with no penalty, but if a black woman says something unkind to them, a jury will lock her up for 4 years?

Talking back while both black and a woman; for some men, this counts as a twin strike against you.