Today’s Shooting (an ongoing topic to discuss)

[Huntn]

Should be something to talk about every day. 😳

Gunman kills 10 in live-streamed racial attack at supermarket in Buffalo

An 18-year-old white gunman shot 10 people to death and wounded three on Saturday at a grocery store in a Black neighborhood of upstate New York, before surrendering after what authorities called an act of "racially motivated violent extremism."

www.reuters.com

• Racism kills.
• It’s mostly white racist POS losers taking many lives and throwing away their own In these type of hateful, meaningless incidents.
• Gun worship, mental illness, and a irresponsible notion that everyone deserves a gun, until they prove to be mass murderers and then the damage is already done.
• The 2A needs to be fixed.
• Accompanied in the gun lobby by a misconstrued right that no, my gun worship will not be interfered with by nuisance regulations and mental screenings.
• At this point, it seems that everyone especially minorities needs a gun and tactical gear If you don’t mind becoming a victIm at the hands of the next white racist Asshole. 😢

 

[P___X]

Should be something to talk about every day. 😳

Gunman kills 10 in live-streamed racial attack at supermarket in Buffalo

An 18-year-old white gunman shot 10 people to death and wounded three on Saturday at a grocery store in a Black neighborhood of upstate New York, before surrendering after what authorities called an act of "racially motivated violent extremism."

www.reuters.com

• Racism kills.
• It’s mostly white racist POS losers taking many lives and throwing away their own In these type of hateful, meaningless incidents.
• Gun worship, mental illness, and a irresponsible notion that everyone deserves a gun, until they prove to be mass murderers and then the damage is already done.
• The 2A needs to be fixed.
• Accompanied in the gun lobby by a misconstrued right that no, my gun worship will not be interfered with by nuisance regulations and mental screenings.
• At this point, it seems that everyone especially minorities needs a gun and tactical gear If you don’t mind becoming a victIm at the hands of the next white racist Asshole. 😢

It never fails to impress me what an excellent job police can do to capture some of these shooters alive:

When confronted by officers at the store, the suspect held a gun to his own neck, but they talked him into dropping the weapon and surrendering, Buffalo police commissioner Joseph Gramaglia told a news briefing.

 

[Huntn]

It never fails to impress me what an excellent job police can do to capture some of these shooters alive:

I hate to be the cynic that I am, but White Privaledge. These types of heinous incidents part of me feels the need for summary executions.

Btw, the ante has been upped. Now you not only do you need a gun, but be pretty good making head shots. The store guard shot the gunman 3 times and the guard died because the tactical gear worn by the gunman protected him. 😳

 

[SouprMatt]

This happened in my hometown, so I am very sad and angry. The NRA doesn’t think their extreme position on gun control matters. Tucker Carlson doesn’t think his “replacement theory” speeches have consequences. And right-wingers want to remove all moderation of social media?

We see the result of such things turning an 18-year-old into a radical white power terrorist. I cannot count how many times I’ve gone to a Tops in my life.

We need national gun control now. This racist 💩 wasn’t a member of a well-regulated militia. The 21st-century extreme interpretation of the 2nd amendment is not helping. There absolutely ARE ways to limit dangerous weapons while protecting the 2nd amendment.

We also need to find ways to track groups spreading online hate speech. Sadly, how can you when you have the likes of Tucker Carlson and Donald Trump saying similar things and amplifying it?

 

[SouprMatt]

The governor of NY said the high-capacity magazines used by the killer are illegal in NY, but the idiots in PA allow such magazines, so he just drove a few miles to PA and bought them. Yet another reason that we need national gun control.

 

[P___X]

I hate to be the cynic that I am, but White Privaledge. These types of heinous incidents part of me feels the need for summary executions.

I'd settle with gun control. BTW, I did some stats for fun. Mother Jones had a list of mass shooters from 1982 to 2020 (128 shooters). I searched the the summaries for "captured", "surrendered", "arrested", taken into "custody", and I found 26 people. Needless to say 20 out of 26 (77%) were, or looked "white".

Sauce: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1b9o6uDO18sLxBqPwl_Gh9bnhW-ev_dABH83M5Vb5L8o/edit?pli=1#gid=0

Btw, the ante has been upped. Now you not only do you need a gun, but be pretty good making head shots. The store guard shot the gunman 3 times and the guard died because the tactical gear worn by the gunman protected him. 😳

Of course, because criminals with criminal intent will out-equip non-criminals without criminal intent. That's the basic premise of how more guns don't make people safer.

 

[TBL]

Tucker Carlson doesn’t think his “replacement theory” speeches have consequences.

This is one thing that I think is being underplayed. "Replacement theory" is not something you only find on 4chan and Stormfront. It is being pushed on mainstream news (the most popular cable news channel in the nation) by the likes of Tucker Carlson.

The fact is that social media is designed to push people further down rabbit holes. Anyone who is at all conducive to extremist thinking and violent action could be spurred to do it by social media. It absolutely needs to be moderated/regulated.

 

[Thomas Veil]

Should be something to talk about every day.

Sadly, that is true.

It is being pushed on mainstream news (the most popular cable news channel in the nation) by the likes of Tucker Carlson.

Sadly that is also true. TC is one of the most despicable people in America right now.

Re: the whole concept of replacement theory...it struck me reading the story that this genius believes whites are being replaced by blacks and Jews and others, and yet it says he drove hours to find a location filled with said minorities.

 

[Herdfan]

The governor of NY said the high-capacity magazines used by the killer are illegal in NY, but the idiots in PA allow such magazines, so he just drove a few miles to PA and bought them. Yet another reason that we need national gun control.

You get on me about over-played tropes, so I am going to challenge you on this one.

There are plenty of videos on youtube showing just how little difference it makes getting off 30 rounds in one magazine or three. Especially in this case where the shooter was wearing armor and was at less risk of being taken out when swapping them.

Also, it is not hard to make a 30 round magazine out of 3 10 round ones at home. Anyone with reasonable skills can do it.

 

[SouprMatt]

You get on me about over-played tropes, so I am going to challenge you on this one.

There are plenty of videos on youtube showing just how little difference it makes getting off 30 rounds in one magazine or three. Especially in this case where the shooter was wearing armor and was at less risk of being taken out when swapping them.

Also, it is not hard to make a 30 round magazine out of 3 10 round ones at home. Anyone with reasonable skills can do it.

I don’t understand what you are challenging, nor what your point is. The governor of NY made a statement on TV which I saw and summarized.

The weapon used in the mass-shooting in Buffalo was obtained legally but was modified later with “illegal magazines” available on sale in other states like Pennsylvania, city’s governor Kathy Hochul said on Sunday.

The magazines used in the attack are not allowed to be sold in New York, officials said.

Gun used in Buffalo supermarket shooting was bought legally but modified, governor says

Magazines used in the Buffalo supermarket shooting are not allowed to be sold in New York

news.yahoo.com

 

[Herdfan]

I don’t understand what you are challenging, nor what your point is. The governor of NY made a statement on TV which I saw and summarized.

The part about needing a national gun law.

Every time one of these shooting happens, and they do happen way to often, the gun control people start in on magazine capacity. And the simple fact is it isn't really a difference maker.

And the fact that the Governor said the weapon was "illegally modified" just shows how little she knows about guns. That is not a modification. The magazine may in fact be illegal, but the weapon was not modified.

 

[SouprMatt]

The part about needing a national gun law.

Every time one of these shooting happens, and they do happen way to often, the gun control people start in on magazine capacity. And the simple fact is it isn't really a difference maker.

And the fact that the Governor said the weapon was "illegally modified" just shows how little she knows about guns. That is not a modification. The magazine may in fact be illegal, but the weapon was not modified.

If you claim magazine capacity doesn’t matter (I disagree having had to reload with 10-round magazines), why are you opposed to them limiting it nationwide?

Any break in the shooting gives people time to escape. The hero who shot the terrorist slowed him down enough for others to escape. Reloading is a few seconds of time in a situation where a few seconds can mean the difference between life and death.

Finally, I find it to be completely tone deaf whenever there is a tragedy like this and people brag about their gun knowledge by telling everybody they have the wrong terminology. Spare me. We care more about lives than guns. It would be one thing if the response was “this won’t work, but this might work.” Instead, it is ALWAYS just “that won’t work.” Sorry, that’s unacceptable. Something needs to be done. Doing nothing is a horrible option and that is proved every time one of these events happens.

Those who want no national gun laws are a small minority. Too bad they control so many members of Congress.

Poll: Most Americans Want To See Congress Pass Gun Restrictions

Democrats and Republicans agree that Congress should tighten gun laws by passing universal background checks and red flag laws and require gun licenses as well as increase funding for mental health.

www.npr.org

(link to a poll on various gun control measures)

 

[Huntn]

The part about needing a national gun law.

Every time one of these shooting happens, and they do happen way to often, the gun control people start in on magazine capacity. And the simple fact is it isn't really a difference maker.

And the fact that the Governor said the weapon was "illegally modified" just shows how little she knows about guns. That is not a modification. The magazine may in fact be illegal, but the weapon was not modified.

So what do you think would reduce this kind of murderous, racist based violence.?

 

[TBL]

I saw in recent news coverage from Buffalo a black woman saying the black community is angry rather than sad. Which I like to hear. "Thoughts and prayers" isn't enough, not even close.

 

[SouprMatt]

I saw in recent news coverage from Buffalo a black woman saying the black community is angry rather than sad. Which I like to hear. "Thoughts and prayers" isn't enough, not even close.

Thoughts and Prayers (tm) is the ONLY thing ever offered by the gun lovers. If innocent people dying by the thousands is the cost for them to hump their guns, that’s fine with them. “Muh rights!” They exclaim since it’s in the constitution. What they don’t care to notice is the bit about the well-regulated militia, or the history that shows the right to individual ownership was never even granted until 2008 with this far-right Supreme Court.

District of Columbia v. Heller, 554 U.S. 570 (2008), was a landmark decision of the US Supreme Court ruling that the Second Amendment to the United States Constitution protects an individual's right to keep and bear arms, unconnected with service in a militia, for traditionally lawful purposes, such as self-defense within the home, and that the District of Columbia's handgun ban and requirement that lawfully owned rifles and shotguns be kept "unloaded and disassembled or bound by a trigger lock" violated this guarantee.[1] It also stated that the right to bear arms is not unlimited and that guns and gun ownership would continue to be regulated. It was the first Supreme Court case to decide whether the Second Amendment protects an individual right to keep and bear arms for self-defense or if the right was intended for state militias.[2]

Sure.… the right has nothing to do with a militia anymore. Just completely ignore that part of the amendment because you gotta please the gun nuts. And it was a 5-4 decision. So don’t tell me that I don’t care about the 2nd amendment. I care about it. I do not care FOR the current absurd interpretation of it, and I hope a future court overturns this decision. But even this isn’t far enough for the gun nuts, because it still allows for regulation of guns and gun ownership. This is anathema to them and they don’t care how many innocent lives must be lost to protect their extreme position of unlimited weaponry of all kinds for everybody.

If everybody was required to store their guns at a local militia armory and only check them out to practice at the range or in case of a foreign invasion or other emergency, one could reasonably argue that the 2nd amendment is being followed. Heck, if they want an exception, the armory could let them keep a hunting rifle and/or a handgun for protecting their home. But this no-permit concealed carry in so many states is a very recent phenomenon.

And if we want to follow the example of Scalia and Alito (and others) and be “originalists,” then the true 2nd amendment right only applies to weapons available at the time the constitution was written. If we‘re going to say abortion isn’t a right because it wasn’t a right in the late 1700s, then the right to any weapon invented after that date is in question too. Cannot have it both ways. The current gun landscape is not “deeply rooted” in American culture and law… not by a long shot. Yet another example of the SCOTUS inconsistency.

No sympathy for the innocent lives lost. No solutions. Just an immediate defensive reaction to protect ”my precioussssssss” regardless of the devastation. But I guess I shouldn’t be surprised. Most of them wouldn’t do something as simple as wear a mask to protect others during the pandemic either.

 

[theSeb]

So what do you think would reduce this kind of murderous, racist based violence.?

I am sure it matters to the dead people that the weapon was not illegally modified. I am glad that we cleared it up, because that was the most concerning thing for me.

 

[Huntn]

Thoughts and Prayers (tm) is the ONLY thing ever offered by the gun lovers. If innocent people dying by the thousands is the cost for them to hump their guns, that’s fine with them. “Muh rights!” They exclaim since it’s in the constitution. What they don’t care to notice is the bit about the well-regulated militia, or the history that shows the right to individual ownership was never even granted until 2008 with this far-right Supreme Court.



Sure.… the right has nothing to do with a militia anymore. Just completely ignore that part of the amendment because you gotta please the gun nuts. And it was a 5-4 decision. So don’t tell me that I don’t care about the 2nd amendment. I care about it. I do not care FOR the current absurd interpretation of it, and I hope a future court overturns this decision. But even this isn’t far enough for the gun nuts, because it still allows for regulation of guns and gun ownership. This is anathema to them and they don’t care how many innocent lives must be lost to protect their extreme position of unlimited weaponry of all kinds for everybody.

If everybody was required to store their guns at a local militia armory and only check them out to practice at the range or in case of a foreign invasion or other emergency, one could reasonably argue that the 2nd amendment is being followed. Heck, if they want an exception, the armory could let them keep a hunting rifle and/or a handgun for protecting their home. But this no-permit concealed carry in so many states is a very recent phenomenon.

And if we want to follow the example of Scalia and Alito (and others) and be “originalists,” then the true 2nd amendment right only applies to weapons available at the time the constitution was written. If we‘re going to say abortion isn’t a right because it wasn’t a right in the late 1700s, then the right to any weapon invented after that date is in question too. Cannot have it both ways. The current gun landscape is not “deeply rooted” in American culture and law… not by a long shot. Yet another example of the SCOTUS inconsistency.

No sympathy for the innocent lives lost. No solutions. Just an immediate defensive reaction to protect ”my precioussssssss” regardless of the devastation. But I guess I shouldn’t be surprised. Most of them wouldn’t do something as simple as wear a mask to protect others during the pandemic either.

That’s right My Precious, the collateral damage and senseless carnage is worth it as long I am not effected or more importantly the perception that I am protected. Ironically this violence is a self fulfilling prophecy, anyone asks me, we can all carry in our own little version of hell. There are enough people and politicians who want guns that this is the reality for the foreseeable future.

After the Wisconsin, Rittenhouse verdict I threw in the towel advising everyone to get a gun, because the way the Justice system is, the gun owner has an inherent advantage with all those gun owners on jurys. And as a liberal, you might as well be prepared for the upcoming civil war. The saddest thing even with everyone armed, it’s the minorities still most likely to get shot in these kind of event because of Racist Whitey. Remember to shoot for the legs or the head when you are faced with someone one wearing a vest. 🤔

One reason why I would prefer not to try to conceal carry is my normal hot weather attire is a t-shirt. Actually I recoil at the thought of carrying a handgun at all times when outside my house. So what is the difference between me and a gun worshiper? I want to see gun regs, I want guns kept out of the hands of the questionable people. Growing up it was difficult to get a carry license, you had to have a legitimate reason. Now, there is zero mental screening, zero evaluation of racist tendencies, every walking talking asshole deserves to have a gun. We have become lassie faire handing out the right to take a life, no responsibility demanded. 🙁

 

[theSeb]

Ars has coverge from a tech perspective. I would recommend reading the comments section too

Social media sites work to limit spread of Buffalo shooting footage

Twitch says livestream of attack was taken down in “less than two minutes.”…

arstechnica.com

 

[P___X]

Finally, I find it to be completely tone deaf whenever there is a tragedy like this and people brag about their gun knowledge by telling everybody they have the wrong terminology.

This x100. @Herdfan, these comments might sound like something important to point out in your mind, but they come off indifferent at best, straight up sociopathic at worst, and when one remembers that the people with sociopathic tendencies can amass guns it becomes alarming. What I learned from the ZERO meaningful discussions I've had about 2A with any of its loud proponents, is that you guys perceive 2A to be so trivial, you aren't even bound by the expectations of basic human decency when discussing its consequences.

 

[P___X]

Thoughts and Prayers (tm) is the ONLY thing ever offered by the gun lovers. If innocent people dying by the thousands is the cost for them to hump their guns, that’s fine with them. “Muh rights!” They exclaim since it’s in the constitution. What they don’t care to notice is the bit about the well-regulated militia, or the history that shows the right to individual ownership was never even granted until 2008 with this far-right Supreme Court.



Sure.… the right has nothing to do with a militia anymore. Just completely ignore that part of the amendment because you gotta please the gun nuts. And it was a 5-4 decision. So don’t tell me that I don’t care about the 2nd amendment. I care about it. I do not care FOR the current absurd interpretation of it, and I hope a future court overturns this decision. But even this isn’t far enough for the gun nuts, because it still allows for regulation of guns and gun ownership. This is anathema to them and they don’t care how many innocent lives must be lost to protect their extreme position of unlimited weaponry of all kinds for everybody.

If everybody was required to store their guns at a local militia armory and only check them out to practice at the range or in case of a foreign invasion or other emergency, one could reasonably argue that the 2nd amendment is being followed. Heck, if they want an exception, the armory could let them keep a hunting rifle and/or a handgun for protecting their home. But this no-permit concealed carry in so many states is a very recent phenomenon.

And if we want to follow the example of Scalia and Alito (and others) and be “originalists,” then the true 2nd amendment right only applies to weapons available at the time the constitution was written. If we‘re going to say abortion isn’t a right because it wasn’t a right in the late 1700s, then the right to any weapon invented after that date is in question too. Cannot have it both ways. The current gun landscape is not “deeply rooted” in American culture and law… not by a long shot. Yet another example of the SCOTUS inconsistency.

No sympathy for the innocent lives lost. No solutions. Just an immediate defensive reaction to protect ”my precioussssssss” regardless of the devastation. But I guess I shouldn’t be surprised. Most of them wouldn’t do something as simple as wear a mask to protect others during the pandemic either.

I agree with your reasoning. The text of 2A might be confusing, but since they've used the well-regulated militia text in the same sentence, an "originalist" interpretation needs to be made within a well-regulated militia context too.

To add to this, in my view of a value system based on "personal responsibility" personal responsibility covers the owners' responsibility about how the gun is used. Just like it's not about the debt, it's not about the sanctity of life and it's not about freedom of speech.